Miss Fitts

[98ciHemi]

Re: Batman's commuter car

Got to work on it for a few hours today. The car ran like crap, so I started troubleshooting. Fuel pressure was low making the engine not want to rev, but once I bumped the pressure up it still didn't make any power up the RPM band. I put a timing light on it and found that I had 0* initial, so I cranked it up to about 10*, and then I revved the engine to see what the advance looked like, and found that the computer wasn't advancing the timing. So, swapping on a 6AL and the mechanical/vacuum advance distributor is on the list. At least I know whats wrong.

[98ciHemi]

Re: Miss Fitts

Well, I have been doing some number crunching, and for a few reasons I think I am going to skip the May meet, or at least abstain from running there. Instead, I am going to try and find a job (that's gonna be a PITA, job market still sucks in Cadillac), and then get the HO engine built for it while I am making some extra money. It's looking like the June meet will be it for me, unless I make enough money to drive out to Loring. If it comes to it, I might see if there is any summer work somewhere else if I can swing it.

[Tom Slick]

Re: Miss Fitts

I was wondering on the timing - does this have a SPOUT connector, or in this case, does it have a place for one but it's not in there?

[dieselgeek]

Re: Miss Fitts

I was wondering on the timing - does this have a SPOUT connector, or in this case, does it have a place for one but it's not in there?

x2

is that a TFI distributor? sure sounds like it.

[98ciHemi]

Re: Miss Fitts

What's a spout connector?

[dieselgeek]

Re: Miss Fitts

What's a spout connector?

It stands for "Spark Output" and it's common in distributor ford engines that used the Thick Film Ignition, also known as TFI. We're wondering if your ignition is a TFI ignition.

Do you have the factory procedure for setting timing? Might be able to find it in a Haynes manual, or Chilton. You definitely want to understand this because on a computer-controlled timing setup, you definitely don't want to randomly rotate the distributor - and if your computer is not causing timing advance, it's almost a sure bet that you have a TFI ignition with a missing Spout connector.

(usually, the Ford procedure is "pull the Spout connector and set the distributor for X degrees advance at idle"). The Spout connector tells the computer to LOCK timing in one place.

If it's not a TFI ignition, then there's a problem somewhere. Going with a mechanical advance is a lot more likely to screw things up than fixing the problem first.

[98ciHemi]

Re: Miss Fitts

It is TFI, but right now I am running the carbed engine. The only feedback the factory computer is getting right now is the tach signal.

I have a haynes manual and I will dig around in it to see if there is any mention of the connector you are talking about, but in the long run I think I will be better off switching to the MSD and my Accel coil instead of putting money into trying to jury rig the factory computer into running the spark only.

The engine in the car is proven good to 100 mph. Right now it won't pull 3 gear at 3000 rpm. The only thing that changed was the ignition system and the fact that it's running a regulated down electric fuel pump instead of the mechanical. Fuel supply seems pretty good right now, so my money is that the computer is looking for some signal that it isn't getting with half of the sensors sitting in a box on the passenger seat.

[dieselgeek]

Re: Miss Fitts

It is TFI, but right now I am running the carbed engine. The only feedback the factory computer is getting right now is the tach signal.

I have a haynes manual and I will dig around in it to see if there is any mention of the connector you are talking about, but in the long run I think I will be better off switching to the MSD and my Accel coil instead of putting money into trying to jury rig the factory computer into running the spark only.

The engine in the car is proven good to 100 mph. Right now it won't pull 3 gear at 3000 rpm. The only thing that changed was the ignition system and the fact that it's running a regulated down electric fuel pump instead of the mechanical. Fuel supply seems pretty good right now, so my money is that the computer is looking for some signal that it isn't getting with half of the sensors sitting in a box on the passenger seat.

If the factory computer is missing things like Air Temp and Coolant Temp inputs, and it's trying to make a TFI distributor work, then it's most likely in limp mode rocking a whopping 10 degrees of timing. My guess is, if you either (a) make it happy (connect a couple free-hanging sensors) or (b) jut go the hillbilly route and get rid of the computer's control of timing, you'll probably pick up the 30-50% of power you're giving up by running it the way you are now.

[STINEY]

Re: Miss Fitts

I second & third this. It doesn't take much to make the factory computer go into limp mode, and that ignition curve sucks big time, pun intended.

The good news is that it is relatively easy to give the computer the inputs it wants, and power will pick up significantly as a result.

[dieselgeek]

Re: Miss Fitts

I second & third this. It doesn't take much to make the factory computer go into limp mode, and that ignition curve sucks big time, pun intended.

The good news is that it is relatively easy to give the computer the inputs it wants, and power will pick up significantly as a result.

Reading back, I'm guessing it might be harder to make that computer happy than we realize. If there's no MAP sensor, no CLT, no IAT - and probably not with the TPS missing either - then it might be a lot of work.

I bet the SPOUT circuit is gone completely, if all he has is RPM running to the computer. Walt, the RPM input to your computer should be labelled as "PIP" on any documentation you have.

Also, do you have an idea where that engine's max timing at WOT should be? Those will be (somewhat) efficient chambers such that, if they only want 20-25 degrees at WOT, he might be able to get away with static, locked timing at that number. So, he could leave it as it, set the base timing to that number, and give it a whirl. It's gonna feel like a hit of nitrous after running around at 10 degrees!

Definitely make sure your fuel quantities are up to snuff though! I.e. it's not good to be searching for Mean Best Timing when you think you might be running lean.

[98ciHemi]

Re: Miss Fitts

Well, I have the whole wiring harness for the duraspark ignition that was on the '82, I might also try and splice that in. I might also just wind up the timing to get it home, but I would prefer to fix it with an ignition with the mech/vac advance. If I can get the TFI working, I will run that, set up the mechanical/vacuum advance, and go out to the dragstrip to see what the winner is.

[98ciHemi]

Re: Miss Fitts

So, after some perusing of the wiring diagrams, I am currently splicing the factory duraspark from the '82 so that it is stand alone except for 12 volt power wired to the run circuit and 12 volts wired to the start circuit. Then I can plug it in until I get the MSD set up.

I got out to the airport today, pulled it out to look at the wiring. Then I fired it up and ripped around on any dry pavement I could find. I couldn't get it going fast, but I went fast enough to discover that this thing is going to be a ball on the street.

[98ciHemi]

Re: Miss Fitts

Two steps forward, one step back. Ignition fixed and working great. But now the fuel pump doesn't run after startup because the engine doesn't get a tach signal. So I have 5 seconds of awesome then sputter-cough-die.

[98ciHemi]

Re: Miss Fitts

Hardwired the fuel pump to a switch and fired it up. It ran OK around the airport, but it still wasn't quite right. It was good enough to take home, though. Dad followed me closely in the truck and somehow we made it. It wouldn't do more than 55 miles per hour, and that was howling in third gear. It drove straight and pretty smoothly, but the charging system doesn't work right now. I pulled into the garage, and before I could shut it off, I heard the fuel pump spin to a halt and the car died. Talk about timing. Now to find out why it's not running right. ;D

[98ciHemi]

Re: Miss Fitts

Since I pulled it into the garage I have been spending most of my time working on the wiring. I am going to scrap most of the factory stuff. I will leave the lighting harness and switch and the windshield wipers, but everything else will be tossed. I finished the wiring a terminal strip for it today. Tomorrow I will make the switch panel, wire it up and get it mounted.