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Barnstormin': The Case Against Chrysler

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  • #16
    Re: Barnstormin': The Case Against Chrysler

    Originally posted by JRoberts
    The bottom line is, however, something had, and still has, to be done or lots more of us will find our personal economies slipping into the proverbial abyss.

    Like it or not just letting the chips fall where they may will not improve anything. Such acts will only make things worse. Somehow there has to be a shock applied to the system to get things going again. That shock will have to be a big one and only the government or some large and successful company (domestic or foreign) can do that. Sad but true.

    I am really surprised the Supreme Court placed a stay on the Chrysler/Fiat deal. But there are Constitutional issues in question here.

    So we have to choose between additional government bail outs of Chrysler or let a foreign car maker take it over. Its a flip of the coin that seems to have no winning sides. However, if one or the other doesn't happen, every one of us will be on the loosing side.

    And let us not forget that as more folks find themselves unemployed, or under employed, the less tax money the government will take in. Roads will suffer, education will suffer, and on and on and on. We can complain about increased taxes, but without them a lot of stuff that we depend on will not be there.

    Oh, yea. Once this is over and done and things brighten up economically speaking, then we can go ofter the bad folks that led us to all of this and begin to make changes to prevent it from happening later on. Doing that now will only take our eyes of the ball, so to speak.
    While I give you credit for your thoughtful approach, I must strongly disagre with your comments above.

    It is NOT a fact that "Somehow there has to be a shock applied to the system to get things going again. That shock will have to be a big one and only the government or some large and successful company (domestic or foreign) can do that. Sad but true..
    . It is your opinion, and one that is shared by some people and not shared by others.

    Frankly, there is zero evidence that the incredible defecit spending (of which only a very small minority has even been spent) has had any positive impact on our economy. There is, however, evidence that it has had a negative impact on our economy.

    There are opinions as to what we need to do. However, there are NO opinions as to the debt service and gross violations of our constitutino we are embarking on. Our economy is driven by the market. Do you know what the largest enemy of the markets are? Uncertainty.

    There is no greater uncertainty created than when all precedent and law is discarded for convenience, eliminating every single standard that has existed for decades. I won't even get into the negative aspects of massive tax increases during a time of economyic strain. That is self evident. Without exception, every single time taxes have been inceased, revenues have decreased because spending slows. Similarly, without exception every single time taxes have decreased, spending has increased. Simply increasing effective tax rates is a formula for disaster.

    What we are doing right now is exactly the same as a broken, out of work, debt ridden and bankrupt individual borrowing massive amounts of money to purchase services that are not essential knowing we can't pay for what we have, and without any plan as to how we'll do any better.

    Print this out, and post it somewhere. Then come back and read it in a couple years. Because, mark my words - if we continue doing what we've been doing (spending, government taking over companies, ignoring laws, bypassing due process) our country will be incredibly worse off and our kids will have a very very very bleak future.

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    • #17
      Re: Barnstormin': The Case Against Chrysler

      So if I understand correctly, secured debt is "unsecure" from here on out. This is like a more subtle and illegal version of "imminent domain?"

      If you owe the secured debt holders 43 cents, and you're worth 43 cents dead, then liquidate it or let the union and fiat compensate the secured debt holders. My opinion is that the rule of law is worth more than all the jobs put together. At some point, America is going to have to tighten it's belt and stand for something instead of the expedient "feel good" solution.
      Cheap, slow, half-assed: Pick three

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      • #18
        Re: Barnstormin': The Case Against Chrysler

        X2. You got it.

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        • #19
          Re: Barnstormin': The Case Against Chrysler

          Right concept, wrong term. The State of Indiana and others were deprived of their property rights, imminent domain is when a government can take real property for the development of a freeway, or more expensive condo. It doesn't relate to anything other then real property (meaning land).

          And, now hang on to your 401k - the Supremes decided not to intervene - thus, to avoid paying your bills, all you need is the right spin doctor.... I can't imagine how the market will take this well.
          Doing it all wrong since 1966

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          • #20
            Re: Barnstormin': The Case Against Chrysler

            buickguy, I don't think he meant a "legal" use of imminent domain - just an analogy. Except that with imminent domain at least there is law behind it. With this, there is not.

            This is unbelieveable.

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            • #21
              Re: Barnstormin': The Case Against Chrysler

              I realize that imminent domain only applies to "dirt"... or does it from here on out?

              Appropriating property for the greater good is something that we'll now have in common with third world dictatorships I guess.

              Every week this country gets closer and closer to the places I grew up in South America.
              Cheap, slow, half-assed: Pick three

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