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Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
Doesn't surprise me with all the green-weenies in that state.
You can't build ANYTHING without someone bitching about hurting the environment.Act your age, not your shoe size. - Prince
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
This story could be repeated across the country.
The problem is that hot rodders and racers haven't done a good enough job at developing economically-viable alternatives. And we're held to a higher standard than other public recreation uses (Anybody ever ask how a skateboard park will pay for itself? And how many public golf courses are subsidized? Who pays for the state fish hatchery?)
And too often, hot rodders haven't been the best of citizens. How many of us gripe about modest muffler rules or reasonable curfews or leave trash blowing around or turn the feeder roads around the track into racing/party central? Too many!
Another problem is that too many auto enthusiasts are not sufficiently organized or involved in local government to make a difference. The first time the politicians see you better not be when you're asking for $3-$10 million for a drag strip.
The current 1950s NHRA drag strip model is outdated. A new "public motorsports park" idea needs to be developed to allow for a variety of motorsports and more users. More users means more political muscle at budget time.
The alternative is illegal street racing, which is no alternative at all.
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
Originally posted by studemaxDoesn't surprise me with all the green-weenies in that state.
You can't build ANYTHING without someone bitching about hurting the environment.
Washington State has a very vibrant car culture. Every time I walk outside, I see (and often photograph) tons of classic and/or special cars being used as daily drivers in Seattle. Ever attend the Pacific Northwest Historics at Pacific Raceways? Didn't think so. Ever been to XXX Root Beer (an auto-themed restaurant) for one of their shows? Ever attended a Greenwood car show? Ever heard of LeMay Auto Museum, which is currently expanding to become the largest car museum in the world? Uh huh, thought so.
I was born and raised in East Lansing, MI, in the shadows of Oldsmobile/Pontiac/Cadillac, and about 1.5 hours away from Woodward Avenue. Car culture was supposed to be front and center there, but it doesn't even remotely compare to what it's like here in Seattle.
Don't believe me? Check out my Flickr photostream. It's mostly photos I took of auto events I've attended in the last five months, as well as all the cool cars I catch out on the street. I don't even attend a fraction of the car-related stuff that happens around here.
My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ham-hoc...7608085297154/
Pacific Raceways: http://www.pacificraceways.com/
LeMay Auto Museum: http://www.lemaymuseum.org/
Greenwood Car Show: http://www.greenwoodcarshow.com/
XXX Root Beer (auto-themed restaurant): http://www.triplexrootbeer.com/
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
Um, which state to you live in?
I have family & friends living in Washington State and all I hear from them is every time someone wants to build the rulemakers SHUT THEM DOWN!
The only place worse about building is in Austin, Texas - you can't do squat there either!
Act your age, not your shoe size. - Prince
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
But this has nothing to do with code compliance, zoning, environmental surveys, or "rulemakers" shutting anyone down. It has to do with the fact that (not surprisingly) nobody will provide the money needed to build a new drag strip when all signs indicate that they will never recoup their loan.
And as far as building/renovation and car culture in WA goes, in addition to LeMay Auto Museum's $100 million expansion to become the largest car museum in the world, I forgot to mention that Pacific Raceways is currently embarking upon their own $135 million expansion, which includes a crazy amount of construction... Seems like they aren't having any problems with so-called "rulemakers" or "green-weenies". I, for one, am glad to live in a state that has both an awesome car culture, and people who care about not effing up the environment.
Unfortunately, business is business, and if you don't have a paying audience, you're not going to make it.
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
The only reason I could understand building a strip in Forks is because of the travel time to get to Pacific or Bremerton..other than that, why? I don't see them recouping costs, either, and it'd be a pain in the ass for anyone from the metro Sea/Tac area to drive to the coast just to run the 1/4. Smart decision, in my mind.Editor-at-Large at...well, here, of course!
"Remy-Z, you've outdone yourself again, I thought a Mirada was the icing on the cake of rodding, but this Imperial is the spread of little 99-cent candy letters spelling out "EAT ME" on top of that cake."
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
If I am reading right they want to bring in 1400 people every event in order to recoup>? I went to a event a couple weeks back at Pacific Raceways and there sure as hell was 1400 people there so I don't get how a place in BFE (ok maybe not but might as well be) is going to get that.
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
I think some are missing the big picture here.
It's not about whether a dark blue state like Washington has a good car culture.
(As a LeMay member, I can say that the "Evergreen State" has a car culture that's better than a lot of states, but not as vibrant as say Ohio or Michigan. It's also got a lot more car haters and "appliance motorists" than many heartland states. The struggle to get the LeMay facility off-the-ground in Tacoma evidences that the "car culture" is often secondary to funding other types of recreation facilities).
It's not about whether a historic, national-event-quality facility such as Pacific Raceways is expanding.
(And Pacific Raceways is already a fine, multipurpose motorsports facility in Kent (undoubtedly sitting on ground that would be a lot more valuable to greedy developers than as a racing facility) It has a long and storied history in the Northwest ( http://www.pacificraceways.com/info/history.cfm).
What it's really about is whether hot rodders, racers and other responsible citizens are going to settle for a sparse number of big, private, expensive regional motorsports venues, or whether more smaller, local venues ought to be available.
Clearly the trend over the past three decades has been toward fewer and fewer local tracks and more ostentatious regional tracks. Some states barely have one or two drag strips and/or road courses left. Dirt ovals are perhaps a little more common, but paved ovals outside of NASCAR's orbit are in decline.
It's no answer to the problem of street racing to say "just load your car up in a hauler and drive a couple of hours to sit in long lines at a regional NHRA track, in hopes of making a couple of passes." Moreover, the harder we make it for younger tuners and rodders to get involved in all forms of motorsports, the fewer people will bother to become involved.
In the early '50s, the appliance motorists and "safety counsels" wanted to shut down all hot rodding. But some visionary pioneers started working with the locals to build small, local, non-profit facilities. But for the efforts of these "out-of-the-box" thinkers, our automotive culture would have developed far differently. Creating local facilities was the right thing to do then. And it's the right thing to do now.
Certainly, times have changed in sixty years. Motorsports is more diverse. Environmentalism is a concern. And safety is paramount. But for local officials and racers to settle for the occassional private facility and to put up roadblocks to smaller, more convenient, less formal, public service motorsports venues is counterproductive.
Every town and city over about 15,000-20,000 residents ought to have a legal place to test, tune and race that's no more than thirty minutes away. (I can just about guarantee you that virtually every city that size has one or more golf courses, many of which are managed and funded by local governments) These multipurpose facilities could also be justified to the non-gearhead taxpayers as "driver training" parks for use by law enforcement and new drivers. For example just imagine how many accidents could be avoided and lives saved if more new drivers could be locally trained in car control on a dedicated wet skid pad and on a handling (autocross) course. Such facilities could also include various other "test" areas, including mostly self-service drag strips, a banked track and a road course. Such facilities could also include motocross and 4WD/ATV trails/test areas.
To do any of this, we've got to expand our vision as to what a modern, local motorsports facility ought to be and how it ought to be managed and paid for at the local level.
Of course, Forks isn't that big, so perhaps smaller rural areas would have to scale down their motorsports parks. But to say to all of the gearheads and potential gearheads "Sorry, you can't use the airport anymore, there's a big track 100 miles away, and we don't think the "car culture" is important enough to provide a safe, legal place to test, tune, and race" just doesn't cut it. It's irresponsible. If we took this same approach to building highways, vast sections of America would still be served by unpaved, minimally improved roads. If we took this same approach to parks, trails, and lakes, many areas wouldn't have them.
Of course, the irony is that airports are often heavily subsidized by government in the name of safety. Yet general aviation has only a fraction of the participants and potential participants of motorsports. However, aviators have done a much better job in lobbying for public investment in local public facilities for their avocation.
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
Originally posted by Speedzzter.blogspotTo do any of this, we've got to expand our vision as to what a modern, local motorsports facility ought to be and how it ought to be managed and paid for at the local level.
Don't get me wrong, I am on board with your vision and basic points. Massachusetts has one race track in the entire state, it's an asphalt oval, Seekonk Speedway. There are a total of three drag strips in New England (four if we want to count eastern NY) those four strips serve a potential audience of millions. I'm an hour and change away, not bad at all, but others trek for half a day just to get there.
Good points.
BrianThat which you manifest is before you.
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
So what? the city decided they can't afford it. I decided I can't afford a ZR1 Corvette, does that mean I'm entitled to it because I want it?
There's a bit of a problem with the greenie belief - you might want to see who owns Spokane Motorsports Park..... last I checked, Spokane is in Washington.
Doing it all wrong since 1966
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
Brian,
You're absolutely correct that funding is the proverbial "elephant in the room." It's a bigger problem than even environmental impacts.
Nearly every state and local government is cash-strapped. Lots of things more essential than parks and recreation are being slashed.
And that's part of the reason hot rodders and racers need to "sell" the motorsports park concept on the basis of safety, driver training, and multiple uses. And multiple levels of government and the private sector ought to be involved.
Most certainly, some places would need to start smaller, such as temporarily closing off an underused public street or parking lot on the weekend (e.g. San Diego's "Race Legal" program) or by adding some "test and tune" amentites to fairgrounds or other public facilities. Some of these things could be done in many locales without huge tax increases.
But when we read of the struggles of the Brotherhood of Street Racers and Terminal Island out in L.A. or hear of another historic track folding to zoning, environmental, and "land use" pressures, it seems that we're not making any progress.
What's troubling is that someone like Cameron Argetsinger couldn't even get a hearing nowadays from most local officials. Certainly Argetsinger's original Watkins Glen plan of the late ''40s and '50s wasn't up to modern safety standards, but the idea of public facilitation of safe, legal motorsports activities at the heart of it should still be viable.
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Re: Potential New Drag Strip in Washington State Appears to be Dead in the Water
Originally posted by BuickguySo what? the city decided they can't afford it. I decided I can't afford a ZR1 Corvette, does that mean I'm entitled to it because I want it?
There's a bit of a problem with the greenie belief - you might want to see who owns Spokane Motorsports Park..... last I checked, Spokane is in Washington.
At its most basic level, government is about protecting our liberty and enabling the sorts of projects that are too big and difficult for the private sector. That's why functions such as building roads, public recreation areas, and schools are generally believed to be legitimate functions of government. Many of those functions are not self-supporting (How many of you paid a toll to drive on a city street today?)
We should have the liberty to build and enjoy hot rods and engage in other motorsports if we so choose. That's part of that "pursuit of happiness" idea. But if there's no safe and legal place to do it, our theoretical liberty is meaningless.
Thus, the language of "entitlement" clearly isn't applicable. But that doesn't mean that hot rodders and racers shouldn't promote the development of "solutions" that improve safety and promote greater exercises of liberty. That's going to be a tough sell to those knownothing politicians who believe that "speed kills."
It's a false dichotomy to suggest that the only choices facing most municipalities are: (a) no tolerance and virtual criminalization of motorsports or (b) spend huge sums on national-quality motorsports facilities. It's akin to saying either a city can build either dirt trails or ten-lane interstate highways and nothing else. The starting point for the dialogue ought to be how can the local and state governments work together with all the stakeholders to improve safety and maximize liberty.
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