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Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

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  • 38P
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    Originally posted by SpiderGearsMan
    Originally posted by Speedzzter.blogspot
    Why not just return to flatheads and 1938-40 Ford coupe bodies? That's what they ran when NASCAR first started.

    A better plan than staying stuck in 1975 would be to race what's actually for sale to the general public (with proper safety upgrades that is)
    you forget olds and chryslerhemis were the cars to beat in the first years of grand nationals
    flatheads are farm implement motors that were obsolete in the post war era
    Yeah, that would explain why the flathead 6-equipped Hudson Hornet won half of the NASCAR Manufacturer's championships before 1955.






    BTW, the architect of Hudson's success in NASCAR was one VINCE PIGGINS. http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/..._feature8.html

    Bangshifters know Piggins later went on to run Chevrolet's clandestine motorsports operations (in violation of the AMA Ban and the 1963 GM Board's insistence upon abiding by it. Much of the reason that GM had so much success after factory support for NASCAR and drag racing dried up in the 1970s was the "heavy duty" parts operation that Piggins, Zora Arkus-Duntov and their co-conspirators had already put into place to circumvent the corporate "no racing" edict.)

    Actually the flathead was technically obsolete as soon as the world had seen Peugeot's DOHC during the 1913 racing season. Jules Goux won the Indianapolis 500 in 1913 with a 4-valve Peugeot. Every four-valve powerplant from that day forward, including such legends as the 1967 Ford-Cosworth DFV and the venerable Offenhauser, owes much of their basic concept to a 1913 Peugeot!

    But flatheads were cheap, easy to build, and made adequate power for ordinary driving.

    Henry Ford's breakthrough of a cheap monoblock flathead V8 wasn't that much technological. (Even arch competitor Chevrolet had overhead valves) It was a breakthrough in price because it made V8s available to the masses.

    Nor was Chevrolet's "Motoramic" 1955 V8 much of a technological breakthrough. It was merely a cheap-to-build, elegantly-simple application of mostly decades-old ideas.

    My point was that picking out some era of history and tying racing to it probably says more about the nostalgia and manufacturer loyalties of the proponent than the inherent technological efficacy of that era.

    If we're turning back the calendar to "fix" racing from the scourge of "technology," then the flathead has just as much or more of claim than does OHV engines.

    Leave a comment:


  • SpiderGearsMan
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    I love taking swips at smokey flat motors , thanks for the opportunity mr bar graphs

    Leave a comment:


  • SpiderGearsMan
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    Originally posted by Speedzzter.blogspot
    Why not just return to flatheads and 1938-40 Ford coupe bodies? That's what they ran when NASCAR first started.

    A better plan than staying stuck in 1975 would be to race what's actually for sale to the general public (with proper safety upgrades that is)
    you forget olds and chryslerhemis were the cars to beat in the first years of grand nationals
    flatheads are farm implement motors that were obsolete in the post war era


    why do you have to race what the lame public drives
    a nissan sentra ? hahaha
    that whole shrowroom racing premise went out the window when the carter administraion banned fun
    1969 was the height of fun , lets keep in that way

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt Cramer
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    Originally posted by SpiderGearsMan
    what will make the racing better with efi ?
    More consistent tuning in all weather, mostly.

    Using EFI won't fix NASCAR, but maybe making the cars closer to production overall might. EFI would only be a small part of that - the biggest part would be using stock-looking body panels instead of making them look like the product of unnatural relations between a dirt track car and a 240SX. As it is, I have got to wonder how long sponsorship dollars are going to keep coming in from manufacturers when there's no connection between these cars and what they have in the showroom. We've already seen GM veto using the Camaro name on the COT because it didn't look like a Camaro. Unless the auto industry has a major turnaround, I suspect the next thing might be refusing to do much more work on an engine when none of the development work crosses over into production cars.

    Leave a comment:


  • realsteelfreak
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    I have found the answer!!! The new NASCAR
    http://jalopnik.com/tag/bumper-cars/

    Leave a comment:


  • SpiderGearsMan
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    Originally posted by RealSteelFreak
    Well it might not be ovals,but if you want closer to stock cars based off production try Koni Challenge Series . Chargers,Camaros, and Mustangs mixing it up with BMW's and the like. Check out the rules for the series on the website.
    http://grand-am.com/assets/KONI09rulesforweb8.pdf
    too bad it is on a *yawn* road course
    the only event to see bmw compete is the demo derby - that would be a sellout
    krush yuppie classic

    Leave a comment:


  • SpiderGearsMan
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    that whole v6 thing was a failure , the bastards would eat up 3500 dollar crankshafts after 200miles - teams were going broke
    the 9:1 thing was a failure - the exhaist temps were unbearable , cars became pizza oven
    the price of progress is trouble
    the whole cot thing is killing the receipts

    Leave a comment:


  • SpiderGearsMan
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    well they do that - gm came up with a gravity moving plate on the sbc , when it hit the turns , it retarded the timing a few degrees
    now illegal
    nascar hands out the msd boxes now
    but , there are tricks a plenty with efi
    other than cold start driveability and emissions and sophisticated traction control
    what will make the racing better with efi ?
    none of you have answer for it
    other than some bullshit of getting with the times
    who cares , we want hi speed fender banging and heroes
    bling wings , heavy bling wheels and efi ain't going to do anything

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt Cramer
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    Originally posted by SpiderGearsMan
    y'all ever hear of a yaw sensor ? g meter - tps ? nascar issues the msd boxes , but I think some traction control is goin on right now with one chase team [11] nascar could issue the pcm , but once you have the harness in there - a tiny - wireless device can be all that you need
    the trick is - less techno , not more - go back to points or a dizzy that is self contained and issued by nascar - carbs - all that - heck , nascar could just take the advance mechanisms out of the ignition system , thats it , no more trouble , don't need it anyway
    you just need traction control in the turns
    we call it torque management
    And you couldn't hide that in an ignition box because... ?

    Most traction control systems you'll see, unless they're using a drive by wire, reduce power output by adjusting the spark timing, and could be pulled off on a carbureted car.

    Leave a comment:


  • realsteelfreak
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    Well it might not be ovals,but if you want closer to stock cars based off production try Koni Challenge Series . Chargers,Camaros, and Mustangs mixing it up with BMW's and the like. Check out the rules for the series on the website.
    http://grand-am.com/assets/KONI09rulesforweb8.pdf

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Ward
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    ^^^^^^^^^^^
    Yeah, what he said. I want to see 2-door Chargers on the street as well as the track!


    Ron

    Leave a comment:


  • 38P
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    Why not just return to flatheads and 1938-40 Ford coupe bodies? That's what they ran when NASCAR first started.

    A better plan than staying stuck in 1975 would be to race what's actually for sale to the general public (with proper safety upgrades that is)

    Leave a comment:


  • SpiderGearsMan
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    nascar should return to inline valve engines too

    Leave a comment:


  • SpiderGearsMan
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    y'all ever hear of a yaw sensor ? g meter - tps ? nascar issues the msd boxes , but I think some traction control is goin on right now with one chase team [11] nascar could issue the pcm , but once you have the harness in there - a tiny - wireless device can be all that you need
    the trick is - less techno , not more - go back to points or a dizzy that is self contained and issued by nascar - carbs - all that - heck , nascar could just take the advance mechanisms out of the ignition system , thats it , no more trouble , don't need it anyway
    you just need traction control in the turns
    we call it torque management

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt Cramer
    replied
    Re: Jim Beam and Jack Daniels Leave NASCAR

    Originally posted by SpiderGearsMan
    BG never heard of the benefits of traction control
    that is why he works for free
    BG- bad ground
    There's only so much you can do for traction control without sensors on the non-driven wheels. And much of what you could do without those sensors could be hidden in an ignition box in a current NASCAR car.

    Leave a comment:

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