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  • Toyota Considers Ditching F1

    http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Toyota...tching-F1.html

  • #2
    Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

    Talk about a poor return on investment

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

      Nobody races in Formula 1 to make money.
      Act your age, not your shoe size. - Prince

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

        Nobody races in Formula 1 to make money.
        Agreed, it's more about ego, publicity and prestige, none of which have been enhanced by the pitiful Toyota program. No wins since 2002.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

          We could only hope "the evil empire" leaves F1 . . . of course they'll probably just throw more money into the take over of NASCAR or dumping more wussy hybrids.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

            renault and benz are hard to beat , maybe toyota should copy less and innovate more
            just a thought as stealing is an excellent business model

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

              nothing screams fail more than the ozzy and harriet camry hybrid pace car
              toyota has no cars that run out of the 15 second range

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              • #8
                Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

                at daytona - the 635 hp ZR1 pace car out powers the 450 hp race cars
                stoopid plates

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

                  Originally posted by Speedzzter.blogspot
                  We could only hope "the evil empire" leaves F1 . . . of course they'll probably just throw more money into the take over of NASCAR or dumping more wussy hybrids.
                  There are so many things wrong with that statement it's not even worth talking about.

                  Anyways, I hope that Toyota leaves F1 and uses that money to develop a new Supra. It stinks that Subaru, Mitsubishi and Nissan are the only purveyors of fun-to-drive in Japan anymore...

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                  • #10
                    Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

                    mitsubishi ? they still in business ?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

                      Originally posted by SpiderGearsMan
                      mitsubishi ? they still in business ?
                      Yeah, they're still in business making Lancer Evos. 8)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

                        Originally posted by ferrarimanf355
                        Originally posted by Speedzzter.blogspot
                        We could only hope "the evil empire" leaves F1 . . . of course they'll probably just throw more money into the take over of NASCAR or dumping more wussy hybrids.
                        There are so many things wrong with that statement it's not even worth talking about.

                        Anyways, I hope that Toyota leaves F1 and uses that money to develop a new Supra. It stinks that Subaru, Mitsubishi and Nissan are the only purveyors of fun-to-drive in Japan anymore...
                        Toyota owns 16.5% of Fuji Heavy Industries, Ltd., manufacturer of Subaru automobiles.

                        As for the "Evil Empire" part:

                        1. Alleged Toyota dumping of hybrids in the U.S. market:

                        "It has always been a mystery to OEM American automotive industry financial analysts how Toyota could afford to build and sell the Prius, and any other hybrids, without seemingly taking into account the escalating costs of the nickel metal hydride battery, NiMH, packs due to the commodity metal supercycle that has taken place entirely during the product life of the Prius. The raw materials for the NiMH battery pack used in the 1999 Prius, 60 lbs of nickel, 24 lbs of lanthanum, and 3 lbs of coablt cost a total of less than $400.00 then. The same battery today has a raw material cost of $1600.00. The added costs of manufacturing the components and assembling them, along with a built-in computer management system at least doubles the cost of the final 'battery.' Are the batteries recycled? If so, where? Perhaps the solution to these mysteries plus the answer to the question "How much were the development costs of the NiMH battery?" is simple; the answer,for Toyota, may be zero."

                        http://www.glgroup.com/News/Is-Toyot...t--23242.html#

                        2. Toyota sued in federal court under the Racketeering and Corrupt Organizations Act:

                        "A case has been filed in federal court here that accuses Toyota Motor Corporation and its lawyers of withholding and destroying information regarding safety hazards present in vehicles manufactured by the company."

                        "The litigation asks for the re-opening of cases, filed in the Eastern District of Texas, that involve 30 plaintiffs who were themselves injured or had family members injured or killed in approximately 15 accidents involving Toyota vehicles between Oct. 22, 2002, and April 13, 2007."

                        http://www.marshallnewsmessenger.com...xsvc=7&cxcat=7

                        3. Toyota sued for patent infringement:

                        "Paice LLC filed a complaint Thursday with the U.S. International Trade Commission in Washington, claiming Toyota is infringing its patent. The company seeks an order to ban imports of Toyota products using its invention."

                        "Paice won a jury verdict in 2005 that the Prius and hybrid Highlander and Lexus RX400h sport-utility vehicles used Paice inventions related to drivetrains. The new ITC complaint claims the hybrid Camry, third-generation Prius, Lexus HS250h sedan and Lexus RX450h SUV infringe the same patent."

                        http://www.chinapost.com.tw/business...oyota-case.htm

                        4. Toyota buying success in NASCAR:

                        "They've spent maybe more money and spent it in areas that other teams haven't, and with that they've gotten the result that you might get from working harder and expending more resources," [Jack] Roush said.

                        http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...tage-in-nascar

                        "Dan Davis, [former] director of Ford Racing Technology . . .said Toyota's spending spree in acquiring crew chiefs, drivers, engineers, tire changers and other support personnel has affected his teams. That includes Robert Yates Racing, which lost Jarrett and his UPS sponsorship [#44 Toyota]. "I think they have been predators, and people would say that might be extremely negative," Davis said. "I would say that in the business world, people are predators. That's how you get things done. When anything new comes in with a lot of resources, then those entities are going to try to acquire the best people, the best equipment, the best that they can get. That's a bit predatory to me. And if you pay people more money than they were getting and you entice them other ways, in a way that's more than normal, then it's a bit predatory."

                        http://askville.amazon.com/money-Mic...questId=751036





                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

                          I'm fully skeptical that Toyota spent their way into success with NASCAR. When you discount the wins with Joe Gibbs Racing, Toyota has a whopping two wins to their credit, both coming this year. One from Brian Vickers, another from David Reutimann. If Toyota was spending their way into success, then they would have a lot more wins from the non-JGR teams.

                          Just a thought.

                          And just to make a thought on another point, I wouldn't consider their hybrid strategy "dumping" if people are buying them. Also, Toyota has steadfastly denied that the Japanese government paid off Toyota for Prius development, and in the lack of any hard evidence, I'm gonna have to believe them.

                          I'm not touching on the lawsuits until I can get more info.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

                            Originally posted by ferrarimanf355
                            I'm fully skeptical that Toyota spent their way into success with NASCAR. When you discount the wins with Joe Gibbs Racing, Toyota has a whopping two wins to their credit, both coming this year. One from Brian Vickers, another from David Reutimann. If Toyota was spending their way into success, then they would have a lot more wins from the non-JGR teams.

                            Just a thought.
                            JGR gets paid . . . a lot . . . to run "Toyotas" (or more accurately Toyota stickers and noses on their common-template NASCARs)

                            And NASCAR practically gave Toyota the keys to city hall. They legalized their non-production engine (which lifted concepts Detroit had spent hundreds of millions in developing over the past thirty years). They basically "gave" (allowed) Toyota instantly competitive bodies (none of which were remotely OEM production) in all three national series (Before the COT "gave" everybody virtually the same hideous body). They dumped about 45 years of tradition (except for a couple of road course races in the 1950s, NASCAR was an ALL-AMERICAN series) to court Toyota's "loose" checkbook.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Toyota Considers Ditching F1

                              Originally posted by ferrarimanf355

                              And just to make a thought on another point, I wouldn't consider their hybrid strategy "dumping" if people are buying them. Also, Toyota has steadfastly denied that the Japanese government paid off Toyota for Prius development, and in the lack of any hard evidence, I'm gonna have to believe them.
                              It's called "circumstantial evidence."

                              If Toyota could do something that nobody else in the industry could afford, then it's more probable than not that they got a little unfair help (e.g. government subsidies, stealing patents, etc.).

                              "The Japanese government paid for 100% of the development of the battery and hybrid system that went into the Toyota Prius." -- Jim Press, a former Toyota manager for 37 years and former Toyota board member.

                              After Toyota tried to deny Press' statement, Press responded:

                              In a statement by Press released through a spokesperson, he doesn't refute what he said to BusinessWeek on March 20. "The Japanese government strongly supported R & D (research and development) investment in battery development, and the Prius and other Japanese models benefited from that investment."

                              http://www.businessweek.com/autos/au...s_jim_p_1.html

                              ONE QUESTION: Has Toyota sued Mr. Press for defamation (Libel, Slander)?

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