Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

[urwurznitmahre]

Re: Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

sorry only one person is responseble for the actions..
rich kid (now in his 40's : )
or a poor one..
doesn't matter, maybe if people look at the one and only..
but now ,with everything, it's "others fault"
drive drunk and kill someone, it's not your fault it's the bar that served you..
same with everything now a days..
sorry , not buy'n it..
you make your own bed and have to sleep in it..
not the parents.. no matter if they are rich or poor..
look at most police, kids.. and they know better..
parenting, might be a factor on a 6 y/o getting in trouble..
but at 40's not so much

[horsewidower]

Re: Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

Every day when we wake up we can choose which path we wish to take. And while I agree with you on many, many topics, blaming Mom and Dad for the irresponsible behavior of a 43 year old man is, in my opinion absurd. While I can buy many of your arguments when applied to youngsters, I can't do so in this case. Personal responsibility still has a place in our society even when its diminished by the excuses you've done a great job of enumerating, but unless the individual is completely amoral & psychotic they know that the actions they are taking are wrong.

There is no absolute here, bad parenting can still produce sterling individuals with upstanding moral character. Good parenting can still produce individuals that make societally objectionable decisions. I clearly am not making the argument "that parenting has no effect or relevance in any circumstances". However, there comes a point when "what Mommy and Daddy did" is irrelevant to the decisions made by a mature adult.

[urwurznitmahre]

Re: Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

Every day when we wake up we can choose which path we wish to take. And while I agree with you on many, many topics, blaming Mom and Dad for the irresponsible behavior of a 43 year old man is, in my opinion absurd. While I can buy many of your arguments when applied to youngsters, I can't do so in this case. Personal responsibility still has a place in our society even when its diminished by the excuses you've done a great job of enumerating, but unless the individual is completely amoral & psychotic they know that the actions they are taking are wrong.

There is no absolute here, bad parenting can still produce sterling individuals with upstanding moral character. Good parenting can still produce individuals that make societally objectionable decisions. I clearly am not making the argument "that parenting has no effect or relevance in any circumstances". However, there comes a point when "what Mommy and Daddy did" is irrelevant to the decisions made by a mature adult.

x2

[urwurznitmahre]

Re: Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

[And it's fairly unlikely these "stars" were sending these sorts of messages. For example, back early in Dale Earnhardt, Jr.'s NASCAR career, when Junior had been knocked out of a race, he told the reporters that it was "nothing a cold Bud couldn't fix." One would assume he had the full measure of parenting from "big E" during his life.

oh my.. a guy has a bad day.. in this case a bad race day..
and says cooling off, winding down with a beer.. is a lack of parenting..
you are kidding..
a quote from a racer that money for the team comes from um.. BUD..
wow.. man I really feel for your kids. if you have any..
I'm sure that you or you'll blame yourself for everything they do..

[38P]

Re: Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

Hypothetical:

A kid grows up in a home where the parents don't pay much attention to him. He's raised by nannies and servants.

He's shipped off to private boarding schools.

When home on breaks, he sees his parents getting "blitzed" frequently on alcohol.

He sees cocaine and marijuana use at his parents' parties.

His parents avoid any teaching on drugs and are tolerant of the open use of drugs by their friends.

His parents' lax controls on their well-stocked home bar afford easy access for liquor.

The first time his parents notice he's been drinking, they ignore it.

The first time his parents find him hung-over, they ignore it. And the second. . . . and the twenty-fifth . . . .

When he's 16, his parents host "keggers" at home because they think "kids are going to drink anyway" and they want their son to be "popular."

When he's 18, his dad takes him to a "Gentlemen's Club" to get drunk and for a little "action."

When he's 20, his dad "takes care" of legal problems that arrise from a "little too much fun" partying with his "frat bros" on Spring Break. "Boys will be boys" dad always says.

When the Son is arrested for public drunkenness, the family lawyer always "takes care of it." All mom seems to care about is "keeping it out of the papers." All dad ever says is "you need to learn how to hold your liquor like a man."

When the adult son falls in with a group of "hangers-on" that leach money and enable addiction (e.g. Michael Jackson's staff), the parents ignore it and do not cut off the supply of "trust fund" money.

Now, could it really be said that those parents had nothing to do with what their child turned out to be?

While I agree that J.C. has sole LEGAL responsibility for his actions, there may be others who share some of the MORAL responsibility.

One just doesn't arrive in their 40s without being the product of not only their own choices, but also of the teaching, training and examples of scores of authority figures and peers. Although parents should be the most influential, they are not the only ones.

The values that one develops as a child and young adult (i.e. while under the influence of parents) are the baselines for adult values. Ones adult values just don't pop up from under a rock. They incubate during the childhood and young adult years.

(Otherwise, why would we be so concerned with "taking a kid to a car show" or training up the next generation of bangshifters. Why would corporations spend millions in marketing to kids. For example:

"Today's teenager is tomorrow's potential regular customer, and the overwhelming majority of smokers first begin to smoke while still in their teens . . . The smoking patterns of teenagers are particularly important to Philip Morris." (1981 Philip Morris internal document)

"To ensure increased and longer-term growth for the Camel Filter, the brand must increase its share penetration among the 14-24 age group which have a new set of more liberal values and which represent tomorrow's cigarette business." (1975 Memo to C.A. Tucker, Vice President for Marketing, RJR)

If it was true with cigarettes, it's true with other behaviors as well)

* * * *



As to whether bars should ALSO be held liable for serving obviously intoxicated customers . . . of course they should! A stone-cold sober barkeeper is in a far better position to make the call to stop serving than someone who is under the influence is to stop buying.

Dram shop liability (as it's more formally called) does not absolve the drunk of responsibility. it creates JOINT liability. It merely recognizes that the drunk was enabled by others who should have known better and were in a position to do something about it.

[urwurznitmahre]

Re: Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

Hypothetical:


Dram shop liability (as it's more formally called) does not absolve the drunk of responsibility. it creates JOINT liability. It merely recognizes that the drunk was enabled by others who should have known better and were in a position to do something about it.

no dram shop liability , is for lawyers to get a bigger check..for themselves and the greive'n family, that only big money will bring happyness..
so in your thinking, a car dealer should be liab for selling a teen or early 20's a 400hp car, knowing he can't handle it..
but your "hypothetical" story.. is missing stuff. like that dad that "fixes legal issue of a college kid.. more than likely
1) tells the kid he was stupid
2)isn't laugh'n about it..

kid comes home to parents "blitzed"
doesn't mean he's gonna be allow to get blitzed also..
parents jump off a bridge the kid gonna follow????????
sound like you thing so..

[Schtauffer]

Re: Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

Charges dropped against Mr France.

http://www.nascar.com/2010/news/headlines/cup/04/23/j.c.france.charges.dropped/index.html

[studemax]

Re: Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

Money turns Lady Justice aside yet again....

[Not A Duster]

Re: Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

Money turns Lady Justice aside yet again....

Yep.

So much for "fair and equal in the eyes of the law" eh?

We have our share of corruption in our country, but nothing like you guys.

Pretty sad when the laws are made not by the elected lawmakers, but by corporations like NASCAR.

Good luck with your downward spiral...

[Ron Ward]

Re: Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

I should send in a question to Click & Clack...


"What is the recommended method of adjusting the dwell on my Accel dual point distributor? I am having issues with a high speed miss (around 7800 rpm) while doing burnouts in the cul-de-sac."



;D

Ron

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: Opinion: JC France Drug Arrest Shouldn't Be Mocked

nascar brings a lot of money to the local economy

absolute power corrupts absolutley