Daytona International Speedway Trades Seats for Ferris Wheel?

[dieselgeek]

Re: Daytona International Speedway Trades Seats for Ferris Wheel?

nothing like 30 years of unfair trade imbalance to screw up a domestic car company
debtor nation
oh , yeah , forgot about the marxist who seized the place on march 30

more Toyotas sold in the USA, are made in the USA by US employes, than GM cars which are made in Canada and Mexico... don't let fact get in the way of a good rant I guess. Buy a Toyota, Honda, or BMW and keep Americans employed!

[38P]

Re: Daytona International Speedway Trades Seats for Ferris Wheel?

nothing like 30 years of unfair trade imbalance to screw up a domestic car company
debtor nation
oh , yeah , forgot about the marxist who seized the place on march 30

more Toyotas sold in the USA, are made in the USA by US employes, than GM cars which are made in Canada and Mexico... don't let fact get in the way of a good rant I guess. Buy a Toyota, Honda, or BMW and keep Americans employed!

Whoa now, wait a second! Buying a foreign-engineered, American-assembled car hardly supports as many quality American jobs as buying a car from an American-based company.

For model year 2008 (the most recent statistics available) GM had an American jobs-per-vehicle rating of 78 (each point representing 2,500 jobs) while the "Evil Empire" (Toyota) had a paltry 42 rating. Each direct employment job at auto plants, labs and offices supports more than nine other jobs in the surrounding community. The vast majority of the quality "white collar" jobs for Toyota (engineering, R&D, finance etc.) are not in the U.S.

84% of GM's production sold here was built here. Only 46% of Toyota's production sold here was built here.

The aggregate domestic auto parts content for GM vehicles was 75% (which is too low). But for Toyota, it was a weak 41%. http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org/f...M_v_Toyota.pdf

You can rationalize putting your money down with the Japanese invaders any way you want. But to suggest that Toyota or any of the invaders are better engines for creating quality American jobs at the OEM level than GM or Ford doesn't pass the "smell test."

But "don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant."

Also don't forget that there probably hasn't been an "invader" assembly plant constructed in the past 30 years without huge subsidies from greedy local governments and that many of our economic and regulatory policies have bled Detroit dry for decades.

If you want to keep MORE Americans employed (especially Americans in high-value professional jobs . . . not just mopes putting in screws) and support our shrinking industrial base, you'll buy a vehicle from an AMERICAN-BASED MANUFACTURER!

Instead, if you want to go Asian because you're selfish and short-sighted or are a "Consumer Reports" motorist, then have the candor to be honest about it.

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: Daytona International Speedway Trades Seats for Ferris Wheel?

nothing like 30 years of unfair trade imbalance to screw up a domestic car company
debtor nation
oh , yeah , forgot about the marxist who seized the place on march 30

more Toyotas sold in the USA, are made in the USA by US employes, than GM cars which are made in Canada and Mexico... don't let fact get in the way of a good rant I guess. Buy a Toyota, Honda, or BMW and keep Americans employed!

that sir , is a lie
gm has 54 car buiding and parts plants going in operation the USA , never mind the others in our nafta trading partners in mexico and canada
toyota has 11
plus GM outsells toyota in the USA and around the world

maybe if they really try , toyota won't lose the #2 position to ford

haha - junk

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: Daytona International Speedway Trades Seats for Ferris Wheel?

gm pays our neighbors 35 bucks an hour just in pay
toyota exploits our neighbors with 15 an hour

go home little man

[38P]

Re: Daytona International Speedway Trades Seats for Ferris Wheel?

no , they are killing it
attendence and tv ratings have fallen with toyota showing up , rest my case

they don't belong there
toyota - the xerox of the racing world

Yeah, they're killing it just like "bailing out GM" is what killed GM (insert makes-no-sense-smiley here)

Prolonging it's death? Maybe. Fact is, Toyota bucks help keep NASCAR on life support. Lucky for you that NASCAR made Toyota compete with the Domestics by rebuilding a Domestic-spec engine (archaic junk), because they have engines that came in production cars that, STOCK, will run circles around the best domestic cup car engines. Don't even think about giving them an apples-to-apples, fair chance because they'd dominate from the first lap! let's all be honest here, the domestics NEED protection from the imports whether it's NASCAR, NHRA, or the local car dealership...

Actually, Toyota IS killing NASCAR, because Toyota has been one of the prime beneficiaries of the movement to "common-spec, non-production-based "stock cars." Allowing Toyota in NASCAR has also ruined the All-American mystique of NASCAR, which was essential to the national pride of some NASCAR fans (not saying that's right, but it is accurate). Toyota's big spending has also helped fuel the move to huge "superteams" and helped squeeze out smaller operations (or compel them to sign-up with Toyota as the Detroit companies have been required to consolidate their NASCAR spending to match up with Toyota's threat).

Allowing Toyota in NASCAR produced the proverbial short-term gain (for the Waltrips, Joe Gibbs, the Frances and a few other "enemy collaborators") but has yielded thus far a long-term loss.

While I agree that NASCAR specs have dampened development of American street cars since at least 1957 (when NASCAR first banned production-based fuel injection and supercharging), and that NASCAR's antique carbs & pushrods specs have no meaningful relationship to OEM production cars anymore, I do not agree that Toyota would necessarily dominate if engine specifications were more production-based. Moreover, Toyota has shown a remarkable ability to lose big in international competition based on more modern engine formulas (e.g. WRC, Formula 1).

[dieselgeek]

Re: Daytona International Speedway Trades Seats for Ferris Wheel?

Whoa now, wait a second! Buying a foreign-engineered, American-assembled car hardly supports as many quality American jobs as buying a car from an American-based company.

For model year 2008 (the most recent statistics available) GM had an American jobs-per-vehicle rating of 78 (each point representing 2,500 jobs) while the "Evil Empire" (Toyota) had a paltry 42 rating. Each direct employment job at auto plants, labs and offices supports more than nine other jobs in the surrounding community. The vast majority of the quality "white collar" jobs for Toyota (engineering, R&D, finance etc.) are not in the U.S.

whoa now, wait a second!! I call *massive* BS on the number of American jobs a Domestic auto depends on. You are into facts, can you back this number up? and cite sources other than crybaby domestic auto execs? and I am supposed to buy cars from GM because it takes more people to make one??

84% of GM's production sold here was built here. Only 46% of Toyota's production sold here was built here.

I also do not believe the 84% number. I think you have to stretch the truth a little to call "manufactured out of country, but we bolted the plastic Chevron logo once it got to the states so we can say it's built here" 84% "made in the USA."

The aggregate domestic auto parts content for GM vehicles was 75% (which is too low). But for Toyota, it was a weak 41%. http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org/f...M_v_Toyota.pdf

did you REALLY just cite the "Level Field Institute," comprised of unemployed Detroit/Domestic auto execs, in a discussion someone intends to take seriously??????? I'd sooner get my political advice from the Swift Boat Veterans!

You can rationalize putting your money down with the Japanese invaders any way you want. But to suggest that Toyota or any of the invaders are better engines for creating quality American jobs at the OEM level than GM or Ford doesn't pass the "smell test."

But "don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant."

Also don't forget that there probably hasn't been an "invader" assembly plant constructed in the past 30 years without huge subsidies from greedy local governments and that many of our economic and regulatory policies have bled Detroit dry for decades.

If you want to keep MORE Americans employed (especially Americans in high-value professional jobs . . . not just mopes putting in screws) and support our shrinking industrial base, you'll buy a vehicle from an AMERICAN-BASED MANUFACTURER!

Instead, if you want to go Asian because you're selfish and short-sighted or are a "Consumer Reports" motorist, then have the candor to be honest about it.

The rest just didn't seem to matter, considering your clear bias in the matter. Wow. I'll make sure not to let the facts get in the way of a good BS source...

[38P]

Re: Daytona International Speedway Trades Seats for Ferris Wheel?

Philosophically, there is no true objectivity in humans. (That's a topic for another forum)

I seem to be the only one citing ANY statistics here. Merely slandering the source isn't the same thing as disproving the facts alleged.

We should note that all American vs. foreign statistics, because of the IDIOTIC CAFE "Two fleets" rule from the 1980s and other inconsistent regulations, lump North American production together . . . for all OEMS. So it's an apples-to-apples comparison.

Besides, even if you could prove that the statistics were off by a factor of 10-20 percent (they aren't), buying a Detroit vehicle would still "save" more quality American jobs (especially in engineering and other professional disciplines) than defecting to the sales-poaching, subsidy-guzzling foreign invaders.

Merely bolting together a foreign-engineered vehicle with cheap, unskilled Southern labor out of mostly imported parts doesn't make it American. And it does almost nothing to preserve what's left of our skilled industrial base.