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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
And once again looks over performance wins :There was a one-owner '65 427 Cobra there that won all the driving challenges, but that placed dead last in the show judging. So the win went to the Bad Penny Camaro owned by Steven Rupp of Camaro Performers magazine.
Otherwise sounds cool.Escaped on a technicality. -
Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
No kidding, Show judging, WTF. ???
Is there show judging at Drag week too :PComment
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
Rusty went on drag week....question answered. :DThat which you manifest is before you.Comment
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
How did it place dead last? It looks pretty nice from the picture.Comment
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
Can't have a Pro-Wank shootout without show judging... one needs to justify the 5 axis CNC'd titanium hose clamps!
Did the Bad Penny owner at least drive his own car in this years event??Comment
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
^ I'm not sure what you mean by your pro-wank comment, but I've always liked the idea of muscle cars that could turn.
Anyway, the styling section was reweighted while the math was triplechecked. It turns out the Cobra did infact take the overall win.
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
Almost 45 years later and Powered by Ford Cobras are still laying waste to the Chevrolets!
There should now be some disappointed Pro Touring car owners with a new understanding of concepts like power-to-weight, weight distribution, center of gravity, roll axis, and polar moment of inertia.
BTW, did Brad Kaselowski stop by to help Kinnan's HRM Factory 5 '34 [oops, I mean '33] off the track? :D
Well said! Pro Wank . . . uh . . . Pro Touring is often too much about "boy racer" stylin' over actual performance. Appearance is not factored into the results of a drag racing competition. So why should they be a factor in other forms of vehicle dynamics competition?Originally posted by zombie289Comment
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
Let's not factor the driver out of this as well. Those cars, from what I have been told by people who know, magnify flaws in one's driving ability like no other.Originally posted by Speedzzter.blogspot
It's amazing that the damn thing won!
Brian
That which you manifest is before you.Comment
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
True enough. I suppose after 45 years, he's probably very comfortable with the Cobra's performance envelope.
BTW, is that guy with the huge Earnhardt mustache in your avatar related to the guy with a sunglasses contract and "stroker hat" that's Zombie 289's avatar? ;DComment
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
:DGood observationOriginally posted by Speedzzter.blogspot
Good to see they 'fixed the glitch' on this. ;)
In these sort of contests light weight is likely the key to success, I would suspect the Cobra and the FFR Hot Rod car were at least 1000 pounds less than any of the muscle cars out there. I also believe comparing a 2-seat 2,200 lb sports car to a 3,200 lb sedan is comparing apples to oranges, however there were minimal rules here so that's that. :D
Competitions like this will legitimize the the Pro-Touring movement and I hope these sorts of things continue and grow.
Also, I would like to see comparisons in lap times of the Pro Touring cars present to say a new, stock 3,800 lb 2010 mustang GT?Comment
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
I'm mad my 65 Impala wasn't invited. I wanted to lay waste to those BFG's.BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver
Resident Instigator
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
Win a Goodguys autocross and you'll be invited . . . but that means you have to beat me ;D . . . and more importantly the likes of Mary Pozzi, the One Lap Camaro, and Bad Penny. Maybe get some KDW's or Kumho Ecsta XS's and see how much more your Impala sticks.
Originally posted by Speedzzter.blogspot
I don't understand the pro-touring hate . . . faux touring and arbitrarily large wheels are annoying but not representative of the pro-touring community. You should know that the Cobra, while it was the real deal, was very much modified, not unlike any other pro-touring car.
While I find myself moaning about the styling section, your response has me defending it. The event is tied to SEMA. It caters to the aftermarket suppliers so things are encouraged to look modified just for the sake of looking non-stock. Again, the event is tied to SEMA, no revelations there. There are other events, just go to an autocross or NASA or SCCA driving event.
Originally posted by Speedzzter.blogspot
Really? No one was so utterly surprised. It's also idiotic to think that most pro-touring folks don't understand the limitations of their cars. You pretty much listed things a pro-touring build addresses and improves. I guess it'd just be better to have a muscle car that only really works well when going straight?Comment
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
Sorry my comments were irritating.
I'm not down on the whole Pro-Touring idea at all. I shot a lot of photos (mostly bad because of a camera equipment problem) of the 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Cars. And I'm quite familiar with the "twisty" worlds of open track, NASA, SCCA, vintage racing, time attack and autocross. And I've got a car or two that better at handling than the 1320.
On the other hand, if you're going to a competition and you intend to win it, doesn't make much sense to start out with a vehicle that's inherently uncompetitive. Giving up 1000 pounds in a handling and start-stop competition makes about as much sense as entering a 300-pound jogger in a marathon.
If it's just for fun and exhibition, however, then build whatever strikes your fancy.
If these sorts of events catch on(which I don't really expect), somebody will devise a handicap or "bracket" system so that the "American Iron" and the more luxurious, street-oriented cars can snag a little glory.
It might be closer than a lot of folks think with a "Track Pack" Mustang GT, notwithstanding that most of the OUSCI cars I saw at SEMA would have a significant power-to-weight advantage. Moreover, the average OUSCI car ought to be a lot more "edgy" and "sorted" than a mass-produced Pony Car.Originally posted by mike343sharpstick
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Re: Event Coverage: 2009 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational
So what's wrong with making a muscle car turn? You're on this forum, so I assume you have some kind of interest in old cars. Why not make them turn? No one said they were out to build the world's fastest track car. If that's all anyone ever meant to do, production car racing would not exist. Saying your car turns better than it runs the 1/4 mile is really only saying something if it runs quickly in a straight line (not that I don't respect spec Miatas and whatnot)
Inherently uncompetitive. Right. So what is competitive? Modern cars? Purpose built race cars? If speed is the only objective, I hope you trailer a Radical SR8 or something else absolutely insane to the track, because anything else would just be a waste of your time since you couldn't win overall. If you want to talk weight and weight alone, that's actually an advantage for older muscle cars over the new ones. Somehow I don't think the '10+ Camaros and '08+ Challengers will ever be really popular in the American Iron Series (a NASA series)
In this particular event, the pro-touring cars needed no handicap. None of the modern cars were at all in contention for the win in any dynamic event. And yes, this is the Ultimate STREET Car Invitational. Of course something purpose built is going to have an advantage. The Cobra, though legal and perfectly legitimate, was certainly less of a street car than the many of the others. Some people actually drove their cars all the way to the event, 4 of which drove over 2000 miles one way. Such is the beauty of pro-touring: a track capable and reliable car that still has good styling and soul.
*insert conversation about the differences between an honest street car vs a thinly veiled rule-exploiting race car with references to pro-stock drag racing competitions*
If you people would just look at the results, you can see how modified '10 Mustangs performed. They weren't a factor. Here's a description of one of them:
The other was the Flowmaster Mustang as given away by the Powerblock TV show, Musclecar
Here's the direct link to the results PDF, which judging by some of the comments, some of you weren't ambitious enough to find through my previous link.
The idea of a pro-touring car being well-sorted or somehow unfair to a production Mustang is just plain wrong in some cases. Some are sorted and well-driven. Others are not. At all. Some are really only marketing tools. Some are new builds that have barely had time to let the paint dry. Some are not even pricey. None of these pro-touring cars have the kind of resources behind them that a modern production car has. There will always be more compromised (in terms of comfort and safety etc) in an older car to acheive a certain level of performance than in a newer car. This isn't news to any of the pro-touring builders, so I'm really wondering what you're so smug about.
And despite all of this, the results speak for themselves. The pro-touring cars were among the fastest cars in all the dynamic events. Jackass, the 1969 Steilow built and LS9 powered Camaro was outrunning the ZR-1 chase car. That was not the quickest pro-touring car there. The '69 DSE Camaro was only about a second off of the Cobra's time. The 1970 DSE Camaro is usually quicker than the '69, but it ran KDW's, a less aggressive tire, for this event. Even so, the '70 DSE Camaro ran a 1:53.0 while the Granatelli GT-R with more aggressive rubber ran a 1:52.9. (and no, that's not because the GT-R was poorly driven. How do I know this? Maybe it's because I was there.)
If you were to actually meet a pro-touring enthusiast, you'd find they're like any other reasonable hot rodder. They just want their muscle car to turn adequately. There are posers, but that's true for any type of car build. Just look back to the '60's when kids would put big block air cleaners on small blocks in an attempt to hide what was really under the hood. In many cases, it's not even posing, but rather an incomplete build limited by the common man's budget.
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