Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

[cjforumadmin]

http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Detroit-News-Writer-Asks-What-Makes-and-American-Car.html

[squirrel]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

what makes AND american car?

Oh, AN american car.

It has to be made in America, so that means it's probably kind of old by now, since we dont make complete cars here any more.

[Brian Lohnes]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

What's killing me Jim is that right now I cannot "jump behind the curtain" to fix it because the 'puter guys are updating some stuff and making some changes to the front page.

Maybe I can just put some black tape over the "d"?

[King Matt]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

Are the people who say "follow the money" aware of the percentage of those profits that end up back in the pockets of foreign investors who own so much of the stock and debt of American companies? The world's economies are far too entangled to bother with this outdated argument any more. I agree with Cole that the economic impact on a local community is a far more important factor.

[IRONHEAD]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

Are the people who say "follow the money" aware of the percentage of those profits that end up back in the pockets of foreign investors who own so much of the stock and debt of American companies? The world's economies are far too entangled to bother with this outdated argument any more. I agree with Cole that the economic impact on a local community is a far more important factor.

sorry not buy'n that..
the american car is one that most of the labor from start (planing to it rolling off the line) was taxed here.. use'n labor from within our 50 states

[Mr4Speed]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

Since the trickle down is huge when you factor in the engineering, design, testing, and parts suppliers, I would think that the relevant question is which country receives the greatest overall economic impact, not just where do the end net profits to the manufacturer go.

[King Matt]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

Are the people who say "follow the money" aware of the percentage of those profits that end up back in the pockets of foreign investors who own so much of the stock and debt of American companies? The world's economies are far too entangled to bother with this outdated argument any more. I agree with Cole that the economic impact on a local community is a far more important factor.

sorry not buy'n that..
the american car is one that most of the labor from start (planing to it rolling off the line) was taxed here.. use'n labor from within our 50 states

What aren't you buying? By your logic, the last-gen GTO, for example, is not an American car nor would be any domestic nameplate vehicle designed by and produced by an overseas unit of that company (such as the new Ford Focus and Fiesta), but Toyota trucks and Honda cars that were designed and built in the US are "American made." So how is that different than the economic impact argument?

[38P]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

Are the people who say "follow the money" aware of the percentage of those profits that end up back in the pockets of foreign investors who own so much of the stock and debt of American companies? The world's economies are far too entangled to bother with this outdated argument any more. I agree with Cole that the economic impact on a local community is a far more important factor.

sorry not buy'n that..
the american car is one that most of the labor from start (planing to it rolling off the line) was taxed here.. use'n labor from within our 50 states

But Matt, local economic impact is not unrelated to "follow the money." The vast majority of the spending and jobs supported in bringing a new model to market come in the areas of management, engineering, design, testing, governmental compliance, and marketing. Assembly is only a small (yet obviously critical) component.

Clearly, the "domestic content" measures are of limited use because they focus on component parts and assembly labor. This omits the billions in spending necessary to bring a new vehicle line to market.

Thus, if I was going to prioritize the factors that make a vehicle American or an "invader," here's how I'd prioritize "following the money" impacts:

1. Most important: management, engineering, design, testing.
2. Supplier base management, engineering, design, testing.
3. Governmental compliance, and marketing operations
4. Component parts manufacturing operations.
5. Final assembly operations.
6. Factory-to-dealer distribution.
7. Least important: distribution of profits (because most auto company stocks are traded internationally).

Under the foregoing rubric, a mostly foreign-designed and engineered vehicle assembled in "invader" (transplant) plants out of a mix of domestic and imported parts wouldn't be "American." A mostly American-designed and engineered vehicle assembled in a Mexican or Canadian factory out of a mix of U.S. and foreign parts probably would be more "American" when the money ffrom all the factors is "followed."

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

Well said Speed.

[threedoor]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

Like my '93 dodge, hecho en Mexico while the 1/2 ton version was made in Detroit. I think I'll go back to my '59 panel or my '47 REO.

[Barry Donovan]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

The facts are bad, even american isn't american, only at the helm of a badge and failing marketers.


I would call my hacked up 3 main boxer'd extinct subaru more american than a ford focus...just pop the hood an take a peak.

[IRONHEAD]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

Are the people who say "follow the money" aware of the percentage of those profits that end up back in the pockets of foreign investors who own so much of the stock and debt of American companies? The world's economies are far too entangled to bother with this outdated argument any more. I agree with Cole that the economic impact on a local community is a far more important factor.

sorry not buy'n that..
the american car is one that most of the labor from start (planing to it rolling off the line) was taxed here.. use'n labor from within our 50 states

What aren't you buying? By your logic, the last-gen GTO, for example, is not an American car nor would be any domestic nameplate vehicle designed by and produced by an overseas unit of that company (such as the new Ford Focus and Fiesta), but Toyota trucks and Honda cars that were designed and built in the US are "American made." So how is that different than the economic impact argument?

sorry matty boy..
but just because toyota fly's engineers over to a building here.. and tweaks a design on out soil.. and bolts it together witho utsourced parts that are mostly boated over.. and tooling that was shipped over.. and then sends the money back over..
isn't an american car or truck..
it reminds me of the old maxwell catt. tapes parts sources in china assembled in japan..

so it come out a factory here.. big deal...

[King Matt]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

OK Leadhead, time to bust out your abacus and all your fingers and toes and start counting, because if 51 percent of the dollars to bring a vehicle to market in the US were spent here, you just bought yourself an American-Made ToyHonDai. With import brands doing more and more product development, engineering, supply sourcing, manufacturing, and all marketing and sales here in the US, it wouldn't surprise me if there are some models that already pass that threshhold. So yes, follow the real money, and not just profits, if there are any. ;)

[IRONHEAD]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

OK Leadhead, time to bust out your abacus and all your fingers and toes and start counting, because if 51 percent of the dollars to bring a vehicle to market in the US were spent here, you just bought yourself an American-Made ToyHonDai. With import brands doing more and more product development, engineering, supply sourcing, manufacturing, and all marketing and sales here in the US, it wouldn't surprise me if there are some models that already pass that threshhold. So yes, follow the real money, and not just profits, if there are any. ;)

incorrect.. as seen as labor here is costly..
it can be 51% of the cost but not that % made here..
sorry..

[rattler]

Re: Detroit News Writer Asks: What Makes and American Car

Good discussion. I think it boils down to the individual and community. The UAW member who got laid off in Detroit thinks all Toyota's are foreign. The non-union guy who works at the Georgetown, KY plant assembling Camrys and the barber who cuts his hair think Toyota's are as American as apple pie.

I agree with the writer who said it is way to complicated. There are no country specific manufacturers or companies anymore. They are all Global. As much money goes out of GM/Ford to Europe, Asia, etc. as goes to the USA from Toyota and Honda. The real problem is most of all their money now is going to China and India.

The unfortunate conclusion is the world economic power is shifting. It first accumulated with the Dutch, then it shifted to Spain, England and in the 1900's the USA. Now it is going to China and India. Who will be the next global economic power and even scarier, military power? It is unfortunate but inevitable.