Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

On the other hand Iron is right that without the business-side of racing keeping the tracks and promotors in operation, guys like D/G wouldn't have near as many opportunities and safe places to run . . .

Without today's NASCAR there'd be no drag week? no LSR? I kinda doubt it. Gate dollars are a small fraction of the money that NASCAR brings in (when compared to sponsorship/advertising income), I don't see much of it trickling into LSR or drag week. Maybe the regional SCCA type racing perhaps?

or even trick parts to run with.

To some degree, but you're talking to an avid DIYer. I'm not scared of losing NASCAR to keep the *HOBBY* that I love, going strong. Now, for someone who wants to be a big famous racer on TV (there's that Fan thing again), because that's what they watch at home on TV, then I group those people in the same category as those who want to become movie or TV stars. I wish them the best of luck, knowing that even if they are great actors, they have a 1 in 100,000 chance of becoming that big movie star.

the point D/g was.. if there wasn't pro motorsports less people would be into cars/racing in general..
face it. there be no muscle cars if it wasn't for dragracing..
the days of.. pour'n your own head out of a cast in your garage are long gone..
without,, the big guns.. the parts industry would be very very small..
no better head gaskets for turbos, no better parts at all..
the salt flats live on. because of guys like the summer brothers. ect.. that built stuff.. but also had backing..
only the diehards would even know about if. if not in hot rod/etc .
same with the silverstate race and ones like it..
your a diy guy.. most are.. but some parts your not gonna just make in a basic garage..
if bigger injectors where not aval. you're not gonna build them in your garage, forming the parts and injection molds. are not diy..
without. the big biz side of hot rodding.. it would've died years ago..
without the taxes that the government makes on the biz side of it..
they'd never think twice about force'n the hot roders/racers back into outlaws..
and making autos an item to get to point a to b..
think about that.. without the sema and all the biz behind that.. this hobby would be outlawed.. and you'd not beable to so any mod's to any car/truck that is run on puplic roads..

[dieselgeek]

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

On the other hand Iron is right that without the business-side of racing keeping the tracks and promotors in operation, guys like D/G wouldn't have near as many opportunities and safe places to run . . .

Without today's NASCAR there'd be no drag week? no LSR? I kinda doubt it. Gate dollars are a small fraction of the money that NASCAR brings in (when compared to sponsorship/advertising income), I don't see much of it trickling into LSR or drag week. Maybe the regional SCCA type racing perhaps?

or even trick parts to run with.

To some degree, but you're talking to an avid DIYer. I'm not scared of losing NASCAR to keep the *HOBBY* that I love, going strong. Now, for someone who wants to be a big famous racer on TV (there's that Fan thing again), because that's what they watch at home on TV, then I group those people in the same category as those who want to become movie or TV stars. I wish them the best of luck, knowing that even if they are great actors, they have a 1 in 100,000 chance of becoming that big movie star.

[38P]

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

in phantasy cup - bill elliott is 31 years old and winning all the races
like that ever happened

You're on a hot streak....that's f'n hilarious. :D

Funny joke that's not remotely based in fantasy league reality.

Elliott's stats:

Year: 2010; Rank: 28; Points: 82; Avg. Start: 40.0; Avg. Finish: 27.0; Winnings: $270,070

OK back to real questions....So Speedy, who do you think won the race and what rules would you have to assure that would happen?

I hope that doesn't sound like a smartallecy question. I don't like the G/W/C ending. I think when the laps are up the race is over.

McMurray won the race under the rules in effect at the time.

As to G/W/C: Arguably it reduces the "moral hazard" inherent in finsihing races under caution when there's no racing back to the caution. What I mean by "moral hazard" is the risk of having a teammate or affiliate orchestrate a caution to "lock in" a victory. While the G/W/C rules still could be manipulated (on the white flag lap or to obtain a race "reset" when a leader is clearly ahead), it makes it somewhat harder to run a "crash-to-win strategy. Even when a crash occurred on the white flag lap of the 2010 Daytona 500, NASCAR didn't immediately throw the yellow.

The convention of ending at the "advertsised distance" no matter what (except for rain after the halfway mark) was merely a choice of NASCAR. It's not inherently better than G/W/C. Plenty of short tracks have historically prevented races from ending under caution. A lot of "bullrings" don't even COUNT caution laps! Most timed events in other forms of racing do not end exactly on time, but rather end when the lap underway at the expiration of time is over.

The fans seem to love the drama of G/W/C, even if the mechanics, drivers and Cup traditionalists do not. As with double-file restarts, G/W/C is probably here to stay.

NO d/G .ALL THAT POST CONFIRMS is I understand.. racing .. IS entertainment to the fans..
the racers don't like the changes.. but. IF you understand without the fans.. your not gonna be racing..
as most people can not foot the bill on there own..
it's a fine line.. but if you want to play, you got to go with the way the sport is run..
even when NASCAR was great in the eyes of everybody.. without money(backers) you were not gonna be a factor..
you thing Petty would have won. 1/100th of what he did without STP backing..
sorry, D/G some understand without the fans.. all racing would be dead.. from local bull rings to local dragstrips..
as the land would be condo's now..

The problem is that D/G and FeHead are both partly right. D/G is right insofar as long as there are at least two cars left on the planet, somebody is going to race them. Much of sportsman-level racing (e.g. Drag Week, local bullrings) is motivated by factors other than sane business judgment. In other words, its often a poor business proposition to spend $25,000/year running a Top Gas bracket car or $100,000+ to run a local or regional sprint car. The old joke that "the way to make a small fortune in racing is to start out with a large one" is funny because it's so true.

On the other hand Iron is right that without the business-side of racing keeping the tracks and promotors in operation, guys like D/G wouldn't have near as many opportunities and safe places to run . . . or even trick parts to run with. Gate receipts from fans and television revenues are crucial to big-time auto racing in its present form. Gate receipts even play a factor in some sportsman-level racing. Without paying race fans seeking entertainment from racing, NASCAR likely wouldn't have progressed much farther than moonshiners running each other in somebody's field.

Nor would sponsors be very interested in advertising on race cars or at race tracks if there's little chance of consumer exposure to the messages. Every sportsman track I've seen has some level of advertising. Thus, in most levels of racing (and certainly once it becomes a professional sport), the racers' business model is predicated on money generated by the "entertainment" value of racing.

Investment in parts development is also clearly affected by "what the pros use." Although there would still be an aftermarket if all "entertainment racing" stopped, it would certainly be smaller and less well-promoted. Much of the technology sportsmen enjoy trickled down from the top levels. This development slows if the "racing-as-entertainment" dollars dry up.

While we Bangshifters love Bonneville, Hot Rod Drag Week, Maxton, weekly bracket racing, local autocrosses, NASA and plenty of other events that don't draw many spectators, all of these "grassroots" events combined do not have the media presence or the revenue of NASCAR. Thus, like it or not, the "big dog" in American motorsports is both a sport and popular entertainment.

As for whether Richard Petty "would have won. 1/100th of what he did without STP backing," it's clearly an exaggeration. Petty obtained 119 of his 200 wins before STP was his sponsor. On the other hand, without Chrysler and later Ford's factory backing in the 1960s, hardly anyone would have ever heard of Richard Petty outside the Carolinas. Both Chrysler and Ford were interested in NASCAR because fans (potential customers) were entertained by it.

Sports and entertainment are not mutually exclusive, so long as the results of the contests aren't predetermined (i.e. some forms of professional wrestling).

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

NO d/G .ALL THAT POST CONFIRMS is I understand.. racing .. IS entertainment to the fans..
the racers don't like the changes.. but. IF you understand without the fans.. your not gonna be racing..
as most people can not foot the bill on there own..
it's a fine line.. but if you want to play, you got to go with the way the sport is run..
even when NASCAR was great in the eyes of everybody.. without money(backers) you were not gonna be a factor..
you thing Petty would have won. 1/100th of what he did without STP backing..
sorry, D/G some understand without the fans.. all racing would be dead.. from local bull rings to local dragstrips..
as the land would be condo's now..

[dieselgeek]

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

I apologize if this has been brought up, but..

I think that one of the largest obstacles to any substantive changes to the form of the cars is that to the current generation of "regular" or casual fans, the implication of the changes would be lost. Also, when compared to the personalities of the drivers, the drama, and some of the other factors that NASCAR has willingly allowed to be played up for ratings and money, most people could care less about technical factors involved in the cars. I don't subscribe to this personally, but I think it still applies. And it's the regular/casual folks that pay the freight. Buy the T-shirts, jackets, collectible cars, etc.

It's like the whole "Chicks dig the long ball" thing in Baseball. Hardcore fans love a good pitching duel like nothing else, but it's the 1-0 games that the casual fans bitch about the most. And they pump the money into the sport.

At which point, it's no longer sport, , it's entertainment.

hay brainyac
sports ARE entertainment..
why else would american's watch tv for hours every year.. on motorsport/ski'n/baseball/foolball/basketball/etc/etc/etc
cause it's ENTERTAINMENT.. otherwise they'd be out doing it.. out play'n baseball or whatever with their buddies..
wow your a smartie

that post pretty much confirms for me that you never did drive the race cars that you claim you did. You only understand racing from the viewer's side of the TV screen. Which is fine, that's where most NASCAR fans get their knowledge of motorsports. Just don't try to claim you have experience if you think motorsports is strictly "entertainment" - I don't break my balls to bring in a Drag Week class win every year for my, or your, "entertainment" - I do it because I am pushing my own perceived personal limitations. I cold care less if there's a crowd of spectators or TV cameras, most of that just gets in the way of achieving my own goals. Keep watching NASCAR, it's a good distraction to keep guys like you, out of my way

[min301]

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

I apologize if this has been brought up, but..

I think that one of the largest obstacles to any substantive changes to the form of the cars is that to the current generation of "regular" or casual fans, the implication of the changes would be lost. Also, when compared to the personalities of the drivers, the drama, and some of the other factors that NASCAR has willingly allowed to be played up for ratings and money, most people could care less about technical factors involved in the cars. I don't subscribe to this personally, but I think it still applies. And it's the regular/casual folks that pay the freight. Buy the T-shirts, jackets, collectible cars, etc.

It's like the whole "Chicks dig the long ball" thing in Baseball. Hardcore fans love a good pitching duel like nothing else, but it's the 1-0 games that the casual fans bitch about the most. And they pump the money into the sport.

At which point, it's no longer sport, , it's entertainment.

hay brainyac
sports ARE entertainment..
why else would american's watch tv for hours every year.. on motorsport/ski'n/baseball/foolball/basketball/etc/etc/etc
cause it's ENTERTAINMENT.. otherwise they'd be out doing it.. out play'n baseball or whatever with their buddies..
wow your a smartie

Don't push it with the attitude, buddy....

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

I apologize if this has been brought up, but..

I think that one of the largest obstacles to any substantive changes to the form of the cars is that to the current generation of "regular" or casual fans, the implication of the changes would be lost. Also, when compared to the personalities of the drivers, the drama, and some of the other factors that NASCAR has willingly allowed to be played up for ratings and money, most people could care less about technical factors involved in the cars. I don't subscribe to this personally, but I think it still applies. And it's the regular/casual folks that pay the freight. Buy the T-shirts, jackets, collectible cars, etc.

It's like the whole "Chicks dig the long ball" thing in Baseball. Hardcore fans love a good pitching duel like nothing else, but it's the 1-0 games that the casual fans bitch about the most. And they pump the money into the sport.

At which point, it's no longer sport, , it's entertainment.

hay brainyac
sports ARE entertainment..
why else would american's watch tv for hours every year.. on motorsport/ski'n/baseball/foolball/basketball/etc/etc/etc
cause it's ENTERTAINMENT.. otherwise they'd be out doing it.. out play'n baseball or whatever with their buddies..
wow your a smartie

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

I apologize if this has been brought up, but..

I think that one of the largest obstacles to any substantive changes to the form of the cars is that to the current generation of "regular" or casual fans, the implication of the changes would be lost. Also, when compared to the personalities of the drivers, the drama, and some of the other factors that NASCAR has willingly allowed to be played up for ratings and money, most people could care less about technical factors involved in the cars. I don't subscribe to this personally, but I think it still applies. And it's the regular/casual folks that pay the freight. Buy the T-shirts, jackets, collectible cars, etc.

It's like the whole "Chicks dig the long ball" thing in Baseball. Hardcore fans love a good pitching duel like nothing else, but it's the 1-0 games that the casual fans bitch about the most. And they pump the money into the sport.

At which point, it's no longer sport, , it's entertainment.

[Super Sport]

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

I apologize if this has been brought up, but..

I think that one of the largest obstacles to any substantive changes to the form of the cars is that to the current generation of "regular" or casual fans, the implication of the changes would be lost. Also, when compared to the personalities of the drivers, the drama, and some of the other factors that NASCAR has willingly allowed to be played up for ratings and money, most people could care less about technical factors involved in the cars. I don't subscribe to this personally, but I think it still applies. And it's the regular/casual folks that pay the freight. Buy the T-shirts, jackets, collectible cars, etc.

It's like the whole "Chicks dig the long ball" thing in Baseball. Hardcore fans love a good pitching duel like nothing else, but it's the 1-0 games that the casual fans bitch about the most. And they pump the money into the sport.

[std]

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

OK back to real questions....So Speedy, who do you think won the race and what rules would you have to assure that would happen?

I hope that doesn't sound like a smartallecy question. I don't like the G/W/C ending. I think when the laps are up the race is over.

[Brian Lohnes]

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

in phantasy cup - bill elliott is 31 years old and winning all the races
like that ever happened

You're on a hot streak....that's f'n hilarious. :D

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

in phantasy cup - bill elliott is 31 years old and winning all the races
like that ever happened

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

so seedy, your fantasy "quailty pass b/s"
so how do those geeks score that..
in real racing passing with an ill handle'n car is a harder pass than in one on rails..
a REAL issue that your geeks seem to leave out of the formula..
seems they think passing in the draft. where alot of drivers will follow JR is (to them) a harder pass , than when it's the last few laps and no one is giving you anything..
because if I read your post, those passes are easy passes to the fantasy geeks score card..
but, thats why its "fantasy" league
easy passs, ya right.. like they waved him by.

[realsteelfreak]

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

Negativity is unbecoming of you speedy, NASCAR does have an economic impact, like any other industry, and that is what is , I guess thats why NCDMV issues Manufacturing Plates to those who build race cars.
The point is Fantasy league has little to do with real racing ,emotions, decisions on final finishes.

[38P]

Re: Speedy Says: Here are the Rules NASCAR Should Adopt

The point is that the geeks who bothered to track stuff like how many Top 15 cars JR passed during the Daytona 500 apparently weren't as impressed as his legion of fans here at Bangshift.com.

One could argue that NOTHING that happens in NASCAR is "real life." It's a sport! Sports are contrived and artificial happenings based on an arbitrary set of rules. If it ceased to exist tomorrow, "real life" would go on for the billions who inhabit this planet. While NASCAR does have a huge economic impact, probably only a few thouand people at most are directly affected by the results of a NASCAR race. Everyone else chooses to feel "affected."