BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

[cjforumadmin]

http://www.bangshift.com/blog/BangShift-Question-of-the-Day-Blower-Nitrous-or-Turbocharger.html

[Bamfster]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

By now, everyone should know my answer: N2O!!! I love the sheer violence when you push the button, it's akin to plugging in a whole other motor.

The Chevelle runs 12.30s N/A, but bang it with a 175 shot and 10.90s are the norm. Keep in mind, I also stacked another plate (haven't run it yet) for another 125 hit once I get into 2nd gear....stay tuned.

[jcharliem]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

Nitrous baby! Nobody knows about it, except you. I'm with Bamfster...you hit the button, and crazy (read: bad) things happen. :o

My Chevelle has clicked off some 11.30s, N/A. Have never sprayed it at the track...although it does sport a 200hp plate.

Over the past three years I've fragged two clutches on the street...without a doubt, it's been the nitrous vs the rear slicks...and the clutch happens to be in between the two.

[slimbo5]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

Pill it till ya kill it.

[38P]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

Who cares what any of us "prefer" because the future belongs electricity and turbocharging.

Why?

Federal Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards, by model year:

2012: Cars -- 33.8 m.p.g.; Light trucks -- 25.7 m.p.g.; Combined --30.1 m.p.g.
2013: Cars -- 34.7 ; Light trucks -- 26.4; Combined -- 31.1
2014: Cars -- 36; Light trucks -- 27.3; Combined -- 32.2
2015: Cars -- 37.7; Light trucks -- 28.5; Combined -- 33.8
2016: Cars -- 39.5; Light trucks -- 29.8 Fleet -- 35.5


The only way any semblance of performance survives 39.5 m.p.g. CAFE is with turbocharging.

Nitrous is illegal on the street in at least 38 of the 50 states. Superchargers (unless clutched) cost at least 0.5 m.p.g. off-boost (and much, much more without a bypass valve), which will be a powerful disincentive for future OEM installations. Moreover, the amount of fuel used per pound of "boost" is higher with a supercharger because of the less-efficient, parasitic nature of supercharger drive belt systems (most of the power necessary to drive a turbo is waste energy, so the amount of fuel burned to compress air is measurably less).

If it were up to me, N20 would be fifty-state legal and variable, traction-based control of it fully-integrated into the engine controller.

OEMs would also offer 8+ liter DOHC V8s with
--On-demand direct ethanol/E-85 injection (http://www.ethanolboost.com/) with flexi-fuel pump gasoline/E-85 fueling off-boost operations;
--Driver-controlled displacement-on-demand;
--Variable valve and cam timing (e.g. Ford TiVCT, Fiat Multi-air);
--Driver-switchable start-stop systems;
--Staged "twincharging" (sequential combination of turbocharging and supercharging . . .


http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.c...=174690&page=1 )

--Variable geometry intake manifolds;
--Pulse-separated exhaust headers feeding variable geometry turbocharger turbines; and
--Electric turbo-compounding (exhaust-driven turbo-generator linked with a storage battery pack and a driveline motor-generator).

But because I'm limited to what's going to be available at the JY or OEM, I'll have to stick with primitive turbocharging of "antique" mills.

The quickest I've run is mid-11s with a Roots supercharger (safety equipment limited).

[38P]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

Pill it till ya kill it.

The guys behind the parts counter must love you. The track clean-up crews? Not so much.

[jcharliem]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

Who cares what any of us "prefer" because the future belongs electricity and turbocharging.

Why?

Federal Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards, by model year:

2012: Cars -- 33.8 m.p.g.; Light trucks -- 25.7 m.p.g.; Combined --30.1 m.p.g.
2013: Cars -- 34.7 ; Light trucks -- 26.4; Combined -- 31.1
2014: Cars -- 36; Light trucks -- 27.3; Combined -- 32.2
2015: Cars -- 37.7; Light trucks -- 28.5; Combined -- 33.8
2016: Cars -- 39.5; Light trucks -- 29.8 Fleet -- 35.5

Maybe I missed something. Is this thread about OEM...or about hotrodding whatcha got. ???

[Bamfster]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

I'll never modify any of those model year cars .... and I'm sure they'll be classics if/when I can ever afford one!

N2O is only illegal if the cop knows it's on your car......

[starterguy]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

I don't think it's a matter of whats best but what the appliccation is. If you are building something with a retro vibe then the roots is the only way to go, conversely if it's max power regardless of what it is then go turbo and the N2O is the ultimate stealth power adder (some locals used to use medical grade N2O because it's odorless ;)) Personally I've owned a slightly tweaked Turbo II Shelby Daytona and believe me it was no K-Car ;D It would haul a** better than lots of stuff I saw.

[38P]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

Maybe I missed something. Is this thread about OEM...or about hotrodding whatcha got. ???

OEM has always influenced what rodders build. For example, we wouldn't be hearing ad nauseam about GM's "LESS" V8 had it not become OEM in the late 1990s. Zora Arkus-Duntov's famous memo "Thoughts Pertaining to Youth, Hot Rodders, and Chevrolet" assumed there was about a 3-year lag time between OEM and rodding. That's probably increased to about 5-7 years now.

The supply of cheap JY OHV V8s will eventually dry up. And it's going to happen a lot sooner rather than later because of "Cash for Clunkers" and other supply-side issues. A few more $4+/gallon fuel spikes and the JY supply will evaporate even sooner.

Cheap RWD muscle cars are mostly already history. Old Bangshifters with deep pockets will likely just buy expensive repro engines/bodies or bid up the prices on vintage mills and tin. But a lot of other Bangshifters will either need to adapt or be left out in the cold.

Most certainly if one's frame of reference is only 2011 or the next five years, CAFE may not have much effect. But what happens after 2013 definitely will have impact on most Bangshifters after 2020.

Thus, when discussing the merits of supercharging, turbocharging or dinitrogen monoxide, the future seems relevant.

Sorry if you don't agree.

N2O is only illegal if the cop knows it's on your car......

That's like saying having a bale of weed or a sawed-off shotgun is "only illegal" if the cops see it. BTW, if you're caught in an "exhibition of speed" while squeezing, or even showing off with a "purge," the cop has probably got enough "probable cause" to search for the bottle. And if he finds it hooked up, I've heard that in some states you could even forfeit your car because of involvement in an "illegal speed trial or contest." At a minimum, it's likely to be a big fine if you're caught.

Those risks should be factored into any decision on whether to use nitrous on a street car.

[Bamfster]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

First off, it was a joke....and 2nd, most cops I know (and I probably know more than the average person...LOL) have no clue about N2O, let alone what purging the system means.

And finally, if you don't race on the street, it'll never be an issue!

[457Brodix]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?


Both of my Hot Rods are bottle fed and nothing progressive, they get the whole 450+ shot right at the line and it's one Hell of an Adrenaline rush! Having said all of that, Turbochargers are the way to go and I think easier on parts and if "Diesel Geek" lived closer that's what I'd be running on the tube car. As for old school and cool, there's nothing I like better then seeing a puffer sticking through the hood of a Hot Rod and the whine of the blower belt but that would probably be my 3rd choice.

[Bamfster]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

And just for clarification, I'm not against blowers or turbos ....

#1....Nitrous
#2....Turbo
#3....S/C

[A/Fuel]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

I like nitrous, it fits my car and driving style pretty good. I have thought of millions of blower and turbo combinations and would probably like them too if I had one, I just happen to have used nitrous since the mid-'80's so that's what I have.
It will run 12.50's with out pretty easily and 11.70's with it, had a.60 once set up the same way.
I've been pulled over in this little town and the cops looked in my trunk and said nothing about it, except wow.
I had slicks on, loud exhaust and no side mirrors and they didn't say anything about those either.

[jcharliem]

Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Blower, Nitrous, or Turbocharger?

Sorry if you don't agree.[/quote]

I don't agree. And no need to be sorry.

Guys have been 'hotrodding' for a lot longer than I've been around. Don't see it changing in the next few years either...with nitrous systems and blowers falling to the curbside.

My only regret is this thread going south so quickly with the pontificating.