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BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

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  • BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

    http://www.bangshift.com/blog/BangSh...ig-Blocks.html

  • #2
    Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

    A big block for a small block...

    I think their may be one in the history of gm. :

    ..and if you think a v8 is gonna outrev a 3 main boxer....weeble wobble your counterbalanced crank to a deeper theory and think again...

    and for crpes sake make it full watered non-siamesed bores smart guys.

    ;)

    the big blocks are done here.. I do hear one old truck literally idles by for a couple of years now on my city street. Old way of making a big block work for normal humanity in civilization. I like it.. some don't.

    for racing entertainment, the big block can do big things... bigger than anything.
    Previously boxer3main
    the death rate and fairy tales cannot kill the nature left behind.

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    • #3
      Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

      I don't think a 3 main boxer was one of the choices, kinda hung up on those things, huh?
      Originally posted by TC
      also boost will make the cam act smaller

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

        I'll take a short stroke small block on nitrous, winging past 9k in the lights any day of the week ......
        Whiskey for my men ... and beer for their horses!

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        • #5
          Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

          Bellowing big blocks!
          Escaped on a technicality.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

            both, but if I'd have to choose one it be a short stoke, big bore big block..

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

              Originally posted by Tazracing
              both, but if I'd have to choose one it be a short stoke, big bore big block..
              Yeah, like a 4.375 bore X 3.75 stroke (451) at 5000 rpm.
              Originally posted by TC
              also boost will make the cam act smaller

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

                YES

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                • #9
                  Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

                  They both have their place, and I can appreciate both. However, there is just something about a big block rumbling to the point that your chest vibrates ;D
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

                    Originally posted by A/Fuel
                    Originally posted by Tazracing
                    both, but if I'd have to choose one it be a short stoke, big bore big block..
                    Yeah, like a 4.375 bore X 3.75 stroke (451) at 5000 rpm.
                    I'm more of a fan of the 4.342 x 3.90 variety ;D
                    Escaped on a technicality.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

                      Depends on what you put it in. My Corvette would have absolutely rocked with a DZ302 clone under the hood. (And if it had its subscription to the Accessory Failure of the Month Club canceled.) If my BMW's straight six dies, there's a very good chance I'd call Vorschlag and ordering up an LSx swap kit while I'm waiting for the tow truck. Any relatively light car that I'd want to be a balanced package - and don't want to get excessively creative with what's under the hood, like the turbo slant six in my Dart - the smallblock would make a great choice.

                      But some cars (and a lot of trucks) need a big block, or at the very least a large small block built for torque. A 327 in my Suburban would be just wrong. There's a very clean Dodge Mirada sitting on a local used car lot for $950 - it's been tempting although I don't have the time or money for another project, but I've daydreamed about buying it and putting a 451 Wedge in it. (I know, weird choice for a street machine!) When you want to throw subtlety and balance to the winds and go for raw brutality, a big block is perfect. Or when you just need to haul around a lot of cargo.

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                      • #12
                        Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

                        I love them BBB's but........ You failed to mention the buzz of an inline six at full song. Mine sounds a lot like there's something really wrong but it comes back for more. Having had the experience of standing on the line at Detroit Dragway with a Top Fueler on either side of me - well, that's hard to beat. So maybe a Hemi big block.

                        Dan

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                        • #13
                          Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

                          I like them both. I guess there's no replacement for displacement though, and since my first car ride (home from the hospital after I was born) was in a 1969 El Camino SS 396, I'll go with Rat motors.

                          My favorite small block ever was my friend from high school's (RIP) 1969 Z28 with a 302 that had been reworked and warmed over with a roller valvetrain by a pro builder that knew their stuff. That engine was good for 7k+ RPM all day and made me want a Muncie so bad I could taste it.

                          Today's me loves LS motors. This month's HR magazine pretty much said everything I've been saying and thinking since I bought my SS and drove my buddy's LS3 'vette. Nostalgia aside, they are better than the old stuff and I never thought I could think such blasphemy. Can't wait to drive something with a GEN V in it. Direct injection is awesome.

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                          • #14
                            Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

                            Small Block. MOPAR 340.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: BangShift Question of the Day: Screaming Small Blocks or Bellowing Big Big Blocks?

                              I grew up during the muscle car era, so I start out with a "big block" bias.

                              However, when you throw fuel economy and forced induction into the mix, this question is a bit more difficult. It dovetails with a series of recent posts on the epic turbo thread at the Car Craft.com board. (http://forums.carcraft.com/70/668919...id/page48.html)

                              I found the following excerpt interesting on the on-going subject of "how big of an engine to build" for a street/strip turbo car:

                              Richard Holdener conducted several tests using a 32-valve DOHC 4.6 Ford crate motor for his 2006 book Building 4.6/5.4 Liter Ford Horsepower On the Dyno.

                              Although Holdener's DOHC 4.6 test pressures were marginally different, he achieved startlingly better results than the "F-Bomb" factors would predict:

                              RPM 11 psi 14 psi 20.8 psi
                              3500 300 300 n/a
                              4000 430 475 600
                              4500 525 635 750
                              5000 620 720 860
                              5500 695 775 950
                              6000 730 810 980
                              6500 750 830 990

                              (See graphs on pp. 165-169)

                              Converting the results to hp/l factors illustrates a dramatic advantage in "boost efficiency" for the DOHC 4.6 over "F-Bomb."

                              RPM 11 14 20.8
                              3500 65.22 65.22 n/a
                              4000 93.48 103.26 130.43
                              4500 114.13 138.04 163.04
                              5000 134.78 156.52 186.96
                              5500 151.09 168.48 206.52
                              6000 158.70 176.09 213.04
                              6500 163.04 180.43 215.22

                              Of course, the results from Holdener's tests may not be directly comparable to the "F-Bomb" tests. They were made on different dynos at different times.

                              Moreover, the 4.6 likely consumes less power internally because the reciprocating parts are much smaller and lighter than "F-Bomb's" internals. Friction in the production 2003-2004 SVT Cobra engine may also be lower.

                              Still, "F-bomb's" hp/l numbers are substantially less in the 11-14.4 psi and Race Gas ranges :

                              RPM Street Race
                              3500 78.73 84.14
                              4000 105.92 116.89
                              4500 121.40 134.62
                              5000 139.28 154.45
                              5500 148.89 168.28
                              6000 151.60 175.04


                              The fact that Holdener's DOHC 4.6 achieved a higher hp/l on 14 psi "boost" than "F-Bomb" carded using 18.3 psi "boost" should not be disregarded. Most likely the greater valve curtain area of the four-valve 4.6 was a major factor in the engine's increased "boost efficiency."
                              It should be noted that according to the "F-Bomb" test data, 14.4 psi was the limit for pump gas on the test engine.

                              The bottom line is that once "boost" is in the mix on a street/strip car, the extra expense and hassle of building a big block may not be warranted until the horsepower target is more than 700-800. Even then, a smaller turbo engine on alcohol or race gas would be a formidable competitor to a mildly-boosted fat block.

                              Looking at the difference in fuel economy between a Dodge Viper and any number of smaller-engined modern muscle cars, it also appears that running big cubes will likely cost between 5-10 m.p.g. At $3,00 a gallon or more, that could add up fast.

                              A boosted small block, however, could permit the best of both worlds: reasonable fuel economy and tire-scorching performance. As the 5.0 Coyote and other "high-tech" small blocks are further developed in the aftermarket, I suspect they will become even more attractive for rods that need to balance power with fuel mileage.

                              Sure, fuel economy isn't much of a concern for a weekend car. But for a daily-driven hot rod, the extra fuel economy of a smaller engine is probably worthwhile.


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