Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of Motor Vehicles Gets an Earful

[Super Sport]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

Yeah, while the Rommel/Nazi connection, and all of the loathing that it will viscerally create in the reader toward Forrest is effective, any visit by Erwin Rommel to a Civil War battlefield to study Forrest's tactics likely took place some 50 or more years after Forrest was buried in 1877, and was able to invite, bless, or otherwise endorse Rommel or the Third Reich in any way shape or form. So to try to create some sort of symbiotic connection between the two is disingenuous at best.

To be clear, Forrest by all accounts was a unmitigated void of a human being. His contributions to military tactics, specifically cavalry tactics WERE notable though, and he demonstrated a consistent ability to do more with less, and remain highly mobile; traits that the modern US military learned to prize in its Officers in subsequent conflicts.

So Cole, who are you really taking issue with? The state? It's people? Forrest? Everyone?

[Tazracing]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

those who are edgy run the risk of being cut. There is no redeeming point in that entire article.

This article in other places would be fine, and I would read it. Here? Really, do you want a fight about politics? Wherever there are 7000 people there will be at least 28,000 opinions; stick to cars, really - political fights occur on YB but those fights are moderated by porn. ("oh, I'm so mad that you believe ____, oohhhh naked woman, what was I saying?).

This article brings up the pain of losing the civil war; whether or not society can overlook faults in its leaders; politics of state's rights; imports.... or more succintly, painting this general as an advisor to hitler is both boring and contrived.

If I posted something like this column it be gone in minutes
hay maybe next month he'll do a gardening piece

[dieselgeek]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

Admittedly, this is knife edge for us. It is compelling subject matter and a thought provoking piece.

Cole's stuff will range pretty wide, and this being his opening shot, he wanted to zig when folks expected a zag.

Knife edge? Compelling? Thought provoking? Really, Brian?
Are ya polishing Cole's ass a little too much?

In his effort to be edgy, Cole has become a 3rd rate Hunter S. Thompson.
This is NOT BS worthy, OK?

an opinion like that is easier not to laugh at when it's presented with a BETTER example. Haven't read any of your work so... kinda hard to compare.

[Two Lane]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

Check this linK:

http://kerosenebomb.com/2011/02/17/bangshiftforrest/

??? ??? ??? ??? ???

[Two Lane]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

Sound familiar?
===========

Check the link:

http://www.amazon.com/Rommel-Rebel-Lawrence-Wells/dp/091624265X/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1

"From Publishers Weekly/Rommel and the Rebel/1985


In 1937, a group of German officers toured Civil War battlefields.

What if one of them was Erwin Rommel?

And what if he was obsessed with rebel Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, unorthodox but successful cavalry leader?

German-speaking U.S. Army Intelligence Lt. Max Speigner is sent to Oxford, Miss., as liaison. He becomes friendly with Rommel because of their mutual regard for Forrest.

When the British later find his memo on Rommel's tactics (borne out in the blitzkrieg), they call Max to Cairo in late 1941 to help in "divining" Rommel's plans. The former friends eventually meet again, struggling as enemies.

Part of the book is silly (Rommel in New York at a ballgame), part is very unlikely (Rommel on a drunken, midnight tour of Shiloh with "Bill Faulkner") and part is overblown (fanciful flashbacks to Forrest's behavior in battle). But there's real excitement, especially in the scenes of Rommel's drive on Benghazi and a good depiction of the "Desert Fox" as the "respectable" German warrior. Copyright 1985
================================================== ==========================


Link to the current news on the topic:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/10/proposed-mississippi-license-plate-honor-early-kkk-leader/#

[Ermott]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

As a Canadian living on the west coast of our fair land, I can say this story while well written isn't what I come to visit BS for. Ancient American politics melded with current American PC politics, complete with suppressed gasps of horror is not my cup of tea. The Toyota Tundra thrown in at the last minute didn't really save the article.

Of course I realize that When in Rome applies to websites as it does when one visits in person, and therefore it's best to refrain from adversarial commentary.

Therefore, and seeing as this "thread" seems to be wide open, I'd like to tell a happier race relations story with at an interesting, engine powered vehicle as the subject.

The Soyokaze. "Gentle Wind"

Back in the early 70's when I was a 3rd grader, I lived on Vancouver Island in the town of Campbell River. I still live on the Island, (or to be more technically correct, my home floats above it, rising and falling with the tide, but that's another story.) but a few hours south, in Cowichan Bay. It's the East coast of the Island, where Juan de Fuca Straight separate us from the US mainland, and Georgia Straight provides the same service with regard to the Canadian coast.

Back in the 20's and 30's this eastern shore area teemed with fish of all sorts. It was possible to make a basic living with a rowboat, a pair of oars, several brass fishing lures, line and the strong back required to make everything pull in the same direction. It was possible even, with a bit of luck and a lot of very hard work, to earn enough money one season, to permit the purchase of an engine for the boat in the second season. By the third season it was possible to buy a bit bigger boat and so forth, until after 5 or 6 years it was possible to have saved enough money to commission one's own 30 odd foot fishing vessel.

Partially finished boats were selling out of Steveston and Vancouver BC for 2500 dollars at the time. That price bought you the hull, decks, trunk cabin, wheelhouse fish hold framing and steering setup and not much more. A slow turning high-torque engine of 8 to 10hp came to about another 500 and the fuel tanks odds and ends required another 500 or so. For 3500 dollars and another 10 for a commercial fishing license, you could be in business. Salmon brought 5 cents a piece in those days.

Shigekazu Matsunaga was a Canadian of Japanese ancestry who lived at Quathiaski Cove, on a small island directly across the water from Campbell River. Born in Japan in 1908, he had come to Canada in his early 20's in search of a better life. He worked for a time at whatever came to hand, and soon ennough he had earned enough to buy himself a row boat, a pair of oars several brass fishing lures....and he was a young man in a hurry, for he had left his newly wed wife back in Japan.

By 1939 Mr. Matsunaga's had enough money to commission a new fishing boat. His wife had long since joined him and they had a small house near the harbour. He was know as a hard working fisherman, well liked and respected in the community. Well liked and respected by both Oriental and Non-Oriental Canadians, and that was saying something, for at the time both groups led segregated existences, making contact only when necessary and during the course of business. That's the just way it was.

The boat was to be 37 feet long, a large vessel at the time, and the job was given to the Kishi Boat Works of Steveston. Built for a cost of $3600, the carvel hulled vessel was outfitted with a 1 cylinder 8-10HP Easthope engine. (8hp at 500rpm, 10 hp at 750 rpm) Openings in the central part of the hull permitted seawater to circulate through a "live well" divided to hold both bait (herring) and catch (codfish and salmon). Watertight bulkheads situated fore and aft of the fish hold assured flotation. Cooking and sleeping quarters were in the aft cabin and a roll down canvas shelter protected the open deck space. This was a very well outfitted vessel, hence the price.

For it's day, it was one heck of a boat. In 1941 during World War II, the Soyokaze, along with twelve hundred other boats in the Japanese Canadian fishing fleet, was seized by the Canadian government and sold for rock bottom prices. Mr. Matsunaga and his family were trundled off to internment camps in the BC Interior. The fact that he was already a Canadian citizen made no difference. His world had come to an end, and he dispaired of the future.

But a group of the non-oriental fishermen had gotten together, and sent one of thier group to Vancouver on a mission. Find and buy the Soyokaze. They were lucky, bought the boat for $50 and used the vessel for the duration of the war, maintaining it as Mr. Matsunaga would have done. It proved a reliable and extremely ?lucky? boat.

The war ended in 1945 and many of the Canadian Japanese refused to return to the Coast they once loved. Not so Mr. Matsunaga and family, for they did come back after hearing that Soyokaze had been saved and was still fishing. The group of fishermen who had respected him enough to seek out his boat at the Vancouver auction, handed the vessel back to Mr. Matsunaga, the $50 they "charged" merely a token to make the deal legal.

I remember as a child, watching this boat and others like it head out to the fishing grounds. They never did change the engine, it proved a reliable if not completely silent partner, living long enough to be rebuilt 4 times. It continued to fish with it until declining stocks closed the Cape Mudge commercial cod fishery in the 1980's.

Mr. Matsunaga and his wife donated the boat to the Campbell River museum in 1999. It was restored and is now on display. I worked for his Son in law when in my teens, hence my source for the story just told.

Soyokaze

Easthope engine in similar boat, Eva It's a bit larger, a 10-18 twin cylinder, but you'll get the idea.

Starting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISaXrDYecAY
Idling; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx6DbSBoVQg
Leaving harbour; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgIBmU8xHZg
Flat out for the fishing grounds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmyre5CSFMA Cooling water is pumped into exhaust stream in this type engine to cool beyond manifolding. Prevents burns to wood around exhaust port in hull.
Docking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsNOk2IQ_hY

[dee_dee_railed]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

To political? Probably, and I agree with most of what the author said and enjoyed the read.
Personally, it seemed like to much shameless self promotion for BS. If Cole's had been about Rommel and Forrest drag racing, then maybe BS worthy.

[Two Lane]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

Quote from author's publisher:

"The Controversy? It might be based on Forrest?s penchant for slave-trading,
genocidal battle tactics and an induction as leader of that lil? ol? social club known as the Klan."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Slavetrading? You mean like, Washington, Jefferson & other Founding Fathers?

Genocidal battle tactics? You mean like, Gen. Sherman's promise to the President to exterminate the Sioux?

Klan leader?: You mean like, former Grand Wizard & Senate Majority Leader Robert Byrd, Dem./W.Va.?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rommel Link?


Seems the only reputable military historian of any credibility, Liddell Hart, postulates a possible
"link" between the scorched-earth tactics of (Northern) General W.T. Sherman and Rommel, as both
sought the military benefits of a homeless, starving, sick and decimated civilian population, termed
"total war" against one's enemy. (Google/Wiki General William Tecumseh Sherman)


================================================== =======================
Terminology:

"Sons of Confederate Generals" in excerpt on Bangshift
"Sons of Confederate Veterans" is correct.



HTH

[Ron Ward]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

Although a thought provoking piece, I don't feel it is a good fit for the BS forums.

Just my two cents.



Ron

[biginch]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

what the #### is this RACIST WHITE GUILT RIDDEN bullshit doing on a car forum? are you out of your ####ing minds?

in the context of his time Forrest was no more or less brutal than another battle field commander. escaped slaves were commonly shot when captured. surrendering confederate troops were murdered outright or starved to death as a matter of course. at one point in the war a majority of Forrests cavalry was BLACK, free blacks at that. the victors write the history books, and the sheeple drink it up.

the KLAN? today a bunch of hating idiots, when founded (Forrest publicly denied involvement) it was the only law around. reconstruction/occupation troops allowed anarchy to rein in the south, the secrecy of the klan was to avoid arrest by federal troops.

Shelby Foote is rolling over in his grave at this perversion of history

Forrest was a brilliant warrior, however brutal he may seem by our modern pussified standard. (cant even defend yourself in alot of places now)


If i want a license plate with someone on it you do not like, who the hell are you to tell me how to decorate my car? i think that alone is entirely contrary to the whole idea of bangshift.

If i have offended any of you, GOOD, you have the right to be offended, and i have the right not to give a shit.

HOuston

[Ermott]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

Reading this all again..... If I didn't know any better, and I don't, I merely have hope... I'd say this story was one hell of a troll. And it worked. :P

[BangShift McT]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

I read it this morning. And again this afternoon. And after reading it for the final time, I have to say it:

What the ####, over?!

Brian, this truly is the first time I'm questioning your judgement on something...

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

Did Rommell drive his really cool six wheeled staff car in Mississippi?

[Monk]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

Did Rommell drive his really cool six wheeled staff car in Mississippi?

twin turbo diesels I think

[Thackdaddy]

Re: Lid, Can and Libel: A Tree Falls in Nathan Bedford's Forrest and the Mississippi Department of M

Hmmm....I'll play. ;D

Cole, I have always been an avid student of history and can not tell you how glad I feel after reading your...thing. While I may not always agree with you on matters, I am absolutely sure that you intend to do that which is right and mindful of the intent of those great men who established this Nation.

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness...what is Liberty?

Watching an interview with Justice Stephen G. Breyer, something he said really struck me, it was his search for the meaning of Liberty as it would have been understood by our forefathers. I determined at once to research this myself and while it was instantly clear that Webster would be of no help, I never expected the answer would come to me as simply as, in my opinion, it has.

While reading a very old book one night I found the following reference to liberty;

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty: only use not liberty for an occasion unto the flesh, but by love serve one another.”

The old book is known as the Holy Bible, the verse Galatians 5:13.

Thinking on the above, it was easy for me to imagine those same words coming from the pen of Adams or Jefferson, and I would give much thought to the above over the coming weeks. But this did not answer the question, what did Liberty mean to our founders?

My favorite history subject is by far the American Civil war, and happily arriving a few weeks ago with the cold winds and snow was a new book in the mailbox. My new book is titled “Detailed Minutiae of Soldier Life” by: Carlton McCarthy. Carlton served as a private in the Richmond Howitzers, Army of Northern Virginia.

On page 92 he writes;

“Leaving out of view every other consideration, he realized with exquisite delight, that he was resisting manfully the coercive force of other men, and was resolved to die rather than yield his liberty.”


Reading pages 10-15 of this same book, specifically the letter from Father to Son and relating it to the above quote, I conclude that the founders of our nation would have understood liberty as that described in Galatians chapter 5. To be honest, I have never once before thought of liberty in this way, I wonder if anyone in our age does…


Respectfully;

Thackdaddy

P.S. Tat