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Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

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  • Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

    http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Barnst...nda-Sucks.html

  • #2
    Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

    Brian, it's simple......

    It's called APPEARANCES..........and international bragging rights.*yeah, it sucks, but what can ya do*

    The domestic manufacturers take their goods over there, and get them to perform on-par and beyond with the allegedly "superior" European manufacturers.

    They can screw together a car, I'll give them that....and to some extent, they've given the domestics the well-needed shot in the ribs.



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    • #3
      Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

      The 'Ring is a very technical couse, one that can show off pretty much every point of automotive performance, and on rutted roads that are used pretty much every day, not a show ring. I can understand why manufacturers use it for a performance baseline. I'm more interested in overall performance than just a drag number...I want the car to corner and handle, too, and so is the section of the buying public that cares about performance (unlike what 80% of the buying public cares about...yanno, cupholders and electronic every-damn-thing).
      The former Remy-Z

      "Remy-Z, you've outdone yourself again, I thought a Mirada was the icing on the cake of rodding, but this Imperial is the spread of little 99-cent candy letters spelling out "EAT ME" on top of that cake."

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      • #4
        Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

        Maybe it depends on where you live...around here, the roads are mostly straight.
        My fabulous web page

        "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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        • #5
          Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

          The ring does not suck.....

          The companies that use lap times as a sales slogan do..... :P

          999 out of 1000 people would crash trying to duplicate those times.....

          I will drive it soon....It is awesome.

          Seth
          200 mph or bust.......

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          • #6
            Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

            Brian, you just made my night. Thanks for have the balls to shoot down the nurburgring hype.

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            • #7
              Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

              Brian hold the rocks till I'm done but, I hole heartedly disagree with you . If I was going to pop for a new sporty car Mustang ,Camaro, Challenger, Vette , Viper,or the import competition I want some idea how well the suspension is tuned for real word two-lane curvy hi-way driving . the Ring is simpy the most recognized. But I also want to know 0-60 ,80 100, and so on . You can get the suspension right in the Millford proving ground track .....it just won't mean anything to any one since for the most part it's locked up like Fort Knox .

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              • #8
                Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

                I respectfully disagree:

                I am of the opinion that this article, which seeks to point out the irrelevance of the Nurburgring to Americans, is itself mostly irrelevant. It should be pointed out that the cars in which US automakers (mostly GM) took to Germany for development are the same cars that are now widely accepted as being the best US cars made in decades. These are the cars that offer a genuinely rewarding driving experience to the person behind the wheel. The CTS, ZR-1, Cobalt SS, and HHR SS are all fantastic fun to drive. All of them learned their ABC's at the Nurburgring.

                This article seems to suggest that cars which are only good at going in a straight line are good enough for American drivers. I think there are more than a few people who disagree with that idea. Remember the last 15 or so years? The US automakers have never been down on horsepower, but American cars have long been missing handling finesse.

                The other main suggestion this article attempts to make (which I have beef with) is that since few will venture to drive their Nurburgring-tuned cars at 10/10ths, that there is no reason to tune a car's suspension to those high standards. Is a Ferrari F430 boring to drive at 6/10ths? Didn't think so.

                Just because virtually no American drivers will ever drive their cars at 10/10ths around the 'Ring doesn't mean the cars that were developed and honed there aren't a complete and utter blast to own & drive under normal driving circumstances.

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                • #9
                  Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

                  Man, you guys are letting me down. There's an editorial liberty involved here, making the point that it's a shame the old standard has fallen by the wayside. Touting numbers at the The 'Ring is an example of how the AVERAGE car guy is no longer involved in day-to-day new-car buying. Drag times were pop culture in the '60s and no longer are, and we're sad about that. Shipping cars overseas to prove them on a track there is a ludicrous expense; those same cars could have been developed without it. It was fun for the engineers and a decent marketing ploy.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

                    I fully *get* the jist of the article..and to a certain extent, I AGREE with the premise.

                    The manufacturers SHOULd test here at home as well as abroad....traditional testing themes would be neat.

                    Your former brethren over at MT are just as guilty.

                    really, I just couldn't resist the fun of busting Brian's nads...LOL

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                    • #11
                      Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

                      Dave beat me to the punch, but he's where my head was.

                      I'm sure it's great fun to race around the Ring, but it's all monkey see monkey do.

                      I'd argue for a fraction of the cost those cars could have been tuned at a dozen different American road courses in the span of their development and I don't mean choose one, I mean run the things at ALL of them.

                      Watkins Glenn, Mid-Ohio, Road Atlanta, Miller Motorsports Park, Leguna Seca, Sears Point, Summit Point, and a host of boutique facilites right here at home could provide great beds for all the suspension tuning you'd ever want to do. Not to mention the fact that they are located on the same continent as the intended target audience.

                      I'd also add that it's totally not an argument about "straight line" Vs. "road course" mentality. It's more esoteric than that. I raced a VW in the SCCA (ITC class) competition for a couple years in college so I am familiar with both sides of the coin here and each have their wide range of fun.

                      Hoosier, yep, Milford is non-accessible, but Germany's easier to get your car to?

                      I'm glad you guys have opinions and are sharing them, that's what this is about. I don't take anything personally and neither should you. Read it, talk about it, make me defend it, enjoy it. That's what we're here for.

                      I recent wrote an editorial in Hot Rod about the NHRA switching to 1000' races from 1/4 mile and told all the people who were complaining not to let the door hit them in the ass on the way out. Kinnan forwarded me some of the hate mail, it was legit.

                      HA!

                      Thanks for reading...they'll be another one next Monday.

                      Brian
                      That which you manifest is before you.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

                        The real question is did you guys watch the Top Gear episode where the chick drove the balls off a lorrie at the 'Ring - passing several vehicles!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

                          It seems to me that the reason the domestics would tune at Nurburgring is that when americans with some disposable income buy a performance car they buy BMW, Porsche or Mercedes so they try to emulate the Europeans in an effort to win back the american buying public. Its a misguided effort for sure as most americans wouldn't take a CTS-V if it were given to them because its not "imported".

                          As for 1/4 mile testing, when americans want 1/4 mile performance they tend to build their own. If gm touted the 1/4 mile times of a HHR-SS would you buy one? Emissions and MPGs long ago caused h.p. to be replaced by handling as the performance marketing tool to the average american. Unfortunately, image conscious americans could care less if its Nurburing, Mid-Ohio or Milan as long as its wearing a domestic nameplate.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks







                            wow.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Barnstormin': Why the Nurburgring Kinda Sucks

                              Originally posted by Beagle
                              Dave made me read it. Before then I kinda dismissed because of the title... no offense.
                              I read it because I'm digging the quantity of fine editorial content the guys are churning out....good job!

                              but yeah, normally I don't give a rat's ass about what the tea baggers are up to. Call me a snob.

                              My fabulous web page

                              "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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