2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

[horsewidower]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

I'm not complaining but, if I were, it'd be about the ignition systems. I have to run a distributor if that's what the engine came with (from what I read). That sucks, why can't I fit a crank trigger and individual coils?


Also, I agree with horsewidower, it would be nice if, in the future, they didn't protect the Domestics form the slaughter we could bring with alternative engines! hehe

;)

[dieselgeek]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

I'm not complaining but, if I were, it'd be about the ignition systems. I have to run a distributor if that's what the engine came with (from what I read). That sucks, why can't I fit a crank trigger and individual coils?


Also, I agree with horsewidower, it would be nice if, in the future, they didn't protect the Domestics form the slaughter we could bring with alternative engines! hehe

[horsewidower]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

C'mon, DF, I'm not challenging you, I'm just bench racing. ;D

I'll shut up now, I find myself just bitching a standard EFI guys bitch, and I hate that.

Jon Kaase stated on Speedtalk that he'll be running a 500" 429 Boss. Bet it'll be carbed. ;)

[Freiburger]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

My "beliefs" don't come into it. I've stated no opinions; I've just read the rules.

My answer was simply that it is NOT required that you run a carb-style intake, but you are correct that the injector placement is limited. I didn't make a judgment call on if that was right or wrong.

[horsewidower]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

I think you missed my point. Or I didn't explain myself better. Let's take last years winner, was the as cast intake manifold optimized for placing a carb on it or injectors?? Furthermore, do you believe that any research was done on placement of the injector bosses when they were cast into a carb manifold, or were they just added to the manifold at the close to the port entry position? As to the use of a TBI if there are no as cast bosses, hardly a solution to optimizing an EFI setup.

But hey, at least they let em play in 2009. I'm glad they did, but its hardly optimum.

[Freiburger]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

yep

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

And if the manifold doesn't have an "As Cast Pad" for injectors? Standard square bore carb/throttle body mount at the top.

[Freiburger]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

You do not have to use a carb intake, but if you do, you must put the injectors on the as-cast pads. Under Intake Manifold, it says "Any commercially available cast iron or aluminum or composite (molded) intake manifold is acceptable."

[horsewidower]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

My thoughts exactly. I don't think there is a decent mod motor or late hemi EFI intake available. I could be wrong. Iron block LSx might be the way to go.

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

The way I read them, and correct me if I'm wrong, you have to use a carb intake with bosses that are already cast in. You can't move the injecter placement. If you are using an EFI intake for a later model you still can't move the injecters.

I agree, when I read that I was thinking that pretty much keeps a few engine families out of the running simply because there isn't a ready made EFI manifold for them. When injector bungs are so readily available and drilling and welding isn't that far out of reach for most people, injector placement shouldn't be limited to "as where casts".

Though my vote is for an LSx engine, I wouldn't mind seeing an EFI'd Buick with a SPX intake like mine.

[horsewidower]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

The way I read them, and correct me if I'm wrong, you have to use a carb intake with bosses that are already cast in. You can't move the injecter placement. If you are using an EFI intake for a later model you still can't move the injecters.

[Freiburger]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

I think the intake and injecter placement rules for the EFI are a little weak.

In what way?

[horsewidower]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

I guess there is a ratio then.....

As I was reading the rules, the ideas going through my head were pretty crazy. Each time I'd get to a new "limitation" my idea would change... at first I was thinking "we could win this with a baby 4-banger easily! use a turbo 2.3 Ford" then I got to the "No power adders allowed even if they were OEM equipment" - so then I was thinking, "OK, let's bring a built Honda engine with 4-valve cylinder heads" then I saw the "no 4-valve per cylinder heads, even if OEM" and "minimum displacement 280 cubes" - so really, this is a competition for domestic v8s (we could do a Nissan or Toyota v8 over 280 cubes, but they both have 4-valve heads)...


But I am not going to complain, the fact that Dulcich opened this up for EFI still have me completely giddy. I didn't think we'd EVER see an Engine Masters that allowed EFI. ANd here we are.


-scott

I hope someday someone will set up a competition that allows the 6s and 4s and poweradders. The Syntec Top Shop Challenge is weak sauce vs EMC. Nothing weak about AMS's 1035 hp 4g63.

I think the intake and injecter placement rules for the EFI are a little weak.

[Freiburger]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

Scott, you probably could have stopped at the very first technical rule: Any normally aspirated, gasoline powered, domestic V-8 passenger car engine families produced by AMC, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Pontiac, Oldsmobile or Buick ("domestic OEM") that meets all rules criteria are acceptable.

Here is how the contest is scored. It's average hp and lb-ft from 3,000-7,000 rpm, averaged over three consecutive dyno pulls, then divided by displacement.

SCORING
Performance rankings for the competition pulls will be computed using Dynamic Test Systems (DTS) software. Each Entry?s scoring is a direct result of a Team?s engine Dyno performance, and resulting scores are specific to the engine. Points and scores are not transferable from a Team?s engine to another engine entry by the same Team, nor are points and scores transferrable from one Team to another Team.
If an event is postponed for any reason prior to the start of the scheduled run, it is necessary that any engine and Team still eligible for event competition be in attendance at the rescheduled date and time to be eligible for all scores and any contingency monies and/or awards. If an event is postponed and/or disrupted and rescheduled due to weather or other conditions, natural disasters, acts of God, etc., participants unable to return will not be eligible for any final placement and/or contingency monies, and will be listed as Did Not Finish (DNF) in the Event competition postings.
Competition pulls will consist of three consecutive acceleration pulls starting at 3,000 rpm and ending at 7,000 rpm. Then, "average torque corrected to SAE specs" (recorded to one decimal place) from each of the three competition pulls will be added together and divided by three (the resulting average of corrected torque will be recorded to one decimal place). The "average horsepower corrected to SAE specs" (recorded to one decimal place) from the three competition pulls will be added together and divided by three (the resulting average of corrected horsepower will be recorded to one decimal place).
To compensate for the varied engine displacements, the average torque and average horsepower from the competition pulls, as stated above (recorded to one decimal place), will be added together (the sum will be recorded to 1 decimal place) then divided by the CLAIMED cubic inch displacement of the engine (refer to ENGINE-displacement for proper cubic inch to be claimed), giving average horsepower and average torque per cubic inch to four significant digits (i.e., 2.345). Rounding of the quotient will be utilizing standard rounding, for example 2.3454=2.345; 2.3455=2.346. The quotient of these numbers multiplied by 1000 will determine the engine?s score, represented as a whole number. (i.e. 2345) Claiming a cubic inch less than actual calculated cubic inch as stated in the ENGINE-displacement section of these rules, shall result in disqualification. Claiming a cubic inch 5 or more cubic inches greater than actual calculations shall result in disqualification.

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: 2009 Engine Masters Challenge Rules Announced

I think I read somewhere in the rules it specifically says "Domestic V-8", right before the 280cid sentence if I rememeber right.