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Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decide on Auto Emissions

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  • #16
    Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decide on Auto Emissions

    Dan, I see it as the exact opposite as what you are saying. Read this item from automotive news. It says to me that they are strongly in favor of state by state emissions rules. Not universal rules that would be easy for automakers to comply with. Maybe I'm wrong...

    http://www.autonews.com/article/2009...901149968/1128
    That which you manifest is before you.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decide on Auto Emissions

      Michigan, and I would presume many other states
      don't have the money, or the infrastructure to do this.

      I'm not sure how they could "make" it happen.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decid

        Originally posted by DanStokes
        I think you're fairly new on here so you probably don't know my history. I'm retired from the US Gov't. EPA where I worked 31 1/2 years doing emissions testing as a tech. I've said this before but you likely haven't read it, so I'll repeat -

        It's actually worse than that. The rule makers just don't even consider folks like us when they make these rules. We're a fairly small number compared to the general motoring public, and they're trying to get the emissions down and the FE up on the most vehicles that that they can. They don't want to crush anyone - they just have "target fixation" on their assigned task - in this case, how to lower emissions and improve fuel economy. It's our job to make damn sure that they know we're out here, we vote, and we're watching. I know of no better tool than SEMA (no, I don't work for them) to get this done. Every group that gets their point across (NRA, AARP, etc) all have one thing in common - a powerful lobbying effort in DC. SEMA is ours and we need to support it.

        It's easy to assign some malicious intent to people in the Gov. I worked with these folks for most of my career and I know that they're NOT malicious, just myopic. They just don't SEE us. Really, they mean well and are trying to get things done that need done. The question is how to get these results without crushing people underfoot - people that they are virtually unaware are getting trampled. Again, we need to speak up thru our lobbying group and and get policies in place that allow us the freedom that we need. You and I are on the same side - the question is how to get what we want and need.

        Dan

        Originally posted by dthemi

        The real motive behind actions like this has nothing to do with old cars, its the free thinking people who own them that our puss bag government wants to crush.
        Thanks Dan, I think a little myopia is good thing when focused in the right direction. To me this is the wrong thing to worry about right now. There are so many other good effect for effort and dollars spent targets out there I can't help but think the EPA is either blind, being misguided, or just plain corrupted by the incoming administration. It all stinks to me of the liberal hippie mentality that will soon be at the helm, that won't let the facts cloud their judgment.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decid

          Brian -
          Automotive News won't let me on unless I sign up, which I don't want to do. However, as stated, the states DO have the right to set standards that are more stringent that the Fed standards, so it wouldn't make sense to have the new Administrator campaigning for something that they already have. So we'll see where this all leads.

          DTHEMI -
          I AM a liberal hippie. Few of us are unattached to reality and we really DO want the best for the nation and the world. Last I checked, we all breathe air and drink water (even if processed into Diet Coke or beer) and the EPA is trying to continue to make those things happen. Sometimes they do it well and sometimes they screw up, but they are attempting to keep our world a good place. Lots of good things have happened under conservative administrations and lots of good things have happened under liberal administrations - and we need to keep politics off this forum. Bear with them and let's see where this leads.

          Dan

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decid

            Well Dan, I don't drink diet coke, or beer, and I probably spend more time IN the water than most since I make my living as an underwater documentary cameraman, so it's not like I don't care about whats going on with the environment (and most likely know more than most about it). I'm an evolution believer, in nature, and in capitalism, and if it doesn't make a buck, or stand on its own, let it die. Agreed, political discussions are inappropriate on this forum, but this is a political issue, so I apologize for adding to it. I just get steamed seeing the baby steps we're continually asked to take toward the little safe village we'd all live in if true liberal government has it's way. The EPA has for years been run by politically motivated fiefdoms that use it as a weapon to see their own ends, with little, in my estimation, concern for the real issues causing the problems.

            Also, just for reference, my years with National Geographic, and NOAA have given me the good fortune to hear the opinions of real scientists, who care nothing for politics or religion. Though there are many "scientists" who let their own beliefs skew the facts, and I ignore them completely. When people like Gore are given ANY credence, or audience on the subject it shows how little people really know about the facts regarding the environment. I've seen many marine biologists, and scientists ignore the facts for what THEY think is the right thing for the rest of us to do, both Democratic and Republican, but moe often than not, Democratic.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decid

              Originally posted by DanStokes
              Brian -
              Automotive News won't let me on unless I sign up, which I don't want to do. However, as stated, the states DO have the right to set standards that are more stringent that the Fed standards, so it wouldn't make sense to have the new Administrator campaigning for something that they already have. So we'll see where this all leads.

              Dan
              Dan - please see the Automotive News article below (note, this type article is free when you sign up; you only have to pay for *premium articles* - actually a good site for 'hard' car news like this subject.

              "Obama's EPA to 'revisit' state CO2 rules for vehicles

              Harry Stoffer
              Automotive News
              January 14, 2009 - 1:04 pm ET


              WASHINGTON -- Lisa Jackson, President-elect Barack Obama's nominee as EPA administrator, promised today to "immediately revisit" whether states should be allowed to enforce limits on vehicles emissions of greenhouse gases
              he pledge sets the stage for an early challenge for automakers under Obama, who takes office Tuesday.

              Automakers and their allies oppose state-by-state regulation of greenhouse gases. They say such rules are an indirect attempt to regulate fuel economy, which is a federal responsibility.

              They also say state rules would add costs and create market chaos, especially for dealers near borders with states that don't have their own rules.

              In 2004, California adopted rules that aim to limit vehicle greenhouse gases. More than a dozen other states have taken steps to adopt similar rules. The industry fought the rules in federal courts but lost cases in California and Vermont.

              The rules were to have taken effect with 2009 modelvehicles. But in December 2007, the Bush administration's EPA denied California the waiver it needs to begin enforcing the state rules.

              At the same time, Congress and President George W. Bush enacted tougher federal fuel economy standards, which are to be phased in during the 2011-20 model years.

              The industry argues that a tough national standard is better than a patchwork of state regulation. States respond that they should have the right to impose their own limits.

              During his presidential campaign, Obama promised he would allow states to have their own rules.

              The principal greenhouse gas is carbon dioxide, a byproduct of burning fuel but also a natural part of the atmosphere.

              Jackson testified today before the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, which is holding a confirmation hearing for Obama's EPA nominee. She is expected to be easily confirmed by the Senate.

              Jackson stated her commitment to revisit the greenhouse gas issue -- and to follow the dictates of science, the rule of law and expert advice -- in response to a question from Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., the committee's chairwoman.

              The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers has said it wants to work with the Obama administration to improve fuel economy and reduce greenhouse gases. But the alliance thinks a single national standard is "the best way to do so," spokesman Charles Territo said.

              The alliance represents the Detroit 3, Toyota, Volkswagen and six other automakers."
              a.k.a. - arrowhead from joysey

              "They're no good for you. all they ever think about are cars" (GTO/Warren Oates) - Two Lane Blacktop

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decid

                Also, just for reference, my years with National Geographic, and NOAA have given me the good fortune to hear the opinions of real scientists, who care nothing for politics or religion. Though there are many "scientists" who let their own beliefs skew the facts, and I ignore them completely. When people like Gore are given ANY credence, or audience on the subject it shows how little people really know about the facts regarding the environment. I've seen many marine biologists, and scientists ignore the facts for what THEY think is the right thing for the rest of us to do, both Democratic and Republican, but more often than not, Democratic.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decide on Auto Emissions

                  We all need to thank SEMA for their efforts on our behalf. Most legislation is written in terms laymen have a hard time grasping. So when ya read it, it may not be what it seems at first read...Summaries of these 'attempted laws' are often published in the mags and allot of 'em scare me....My every day ride is SO far away from stock that if an underhood inspection comes to Ohio - I'm screwed. From 'bout 95 to 2001 or so, we had biannual "e-check". It was so poorly set up at first that most folks failed the tests even with new cars. Millions more were spent to upgrade the equipment. By the time they got this sorted out, all the employees were so disillusioned and corrupted that the whole system was scrapped. a couple years later they came back and reinstated the e-check's, but just for a few years when they decided it was no longer 'economically viable', and shut it down again. I like clean air. When my big block olds with a lumpy cam had dual 3" cats, It passed with readings TWICE as clean as the specs for the original 77 v6. The point I'm trying to make with all this verbage is that we really do need a SINGLE set of laws governing this across the country. Its the witholdings from OUR paychecks that get wasted due to inefficiencies of all the individual efforts. But if your lookin' to create jobs and force folks to spend money (ie- help the economy..) well this might be an answer for ya.Can't we just set a national standard on emissions levels and if your car passes- no matter how- then ya get your plates? of course no e-check is what i really want......
                  Mike in Southwest Ohio

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decid

                    Originally posted by dthemi
                    Also, just for reference, my years with National Geographic, and NOAA have given me the good fortune to hear the opinions of real scientists, who care nothing for politics or religion. Though there are many "scientists" who let their own beliefs skew the facts, and I ignore them completely. When people like Gore are given ANY credence, or audience on the subject it shows how little people really know about the facts regarding the environment. I've seen many marine biologists, and scientists ignore the facts for what THEY think is the right thing for the rest of us to do, both Democratic and Republican, but more often than not, Democratic.
                    HA! The leaders of the NOAA are some of the worse. Jim Hansen, chief Climatologist for NASA, was the first to politicize the term Global Warming, before him it was Climate Modulation or Change. Reading his climate model papers is a joke, every variable he doesn't have a number for he puts one in that "he" feels is right (and there are a lot of assumptions!), which of course make the models show a warming trend based on CO2 forcing. But I do agree with the rest of what you said.

                    (Since Dan did a re-introduction, incase you didn't know I'm a geologist educated in California )
                    Escaped on a technicality.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decid

                      Thanks for posting the Automotive News article.

                      It's taking about CO2 - I thought we were talking about tailpipe emissions standards. In this case, I agree that we need whatever standards there will be to be national (as should tailpipe emissions standards), as a patchwork of state standards would be unimaginable. But the car makers are big boys who can stand up for themselves, and I'm sure they will. Remember, Ford and GM each have a whole floor of lawyers in their respective headquarters. Not sure about Chrysler, but I bet they can stand up, too - not to mention VW, Toyota, Nissan, etc. Her making the statement is no where near the same as there being a ruling.

                      As far as our interests - I'll say it again. Send money to SEMA (SANE). They are our best defense.

                      Dan

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decid

                        That's my point about NOAA and Geographic. Noaa is on a political mission, and shooting for Geographic has let me see the true story interviewing scientists all over the world who care only about facts. I watched NOAA push the national marine sanctuary issues on completely unfounded information, and they knew it, and laughed about it amongst them selfs. NOAA is filled with people on personal and political missions, based on personal beliefs. The EPA uses NOAA as a reliable source of information, which it is not. NOAA is/was also Gores baby.

                        Originally posted by TheSilverBuick
                        Originally posted by dthemi
                        Also, just for reference, my years with National Geographic, and NOAA have given me the good fortune to hear the opinions of real scientists, who care nothing for politics or religion. Though there are many "scientists" who let their own beliefs skew the facts, and I ignore them completely. When people like Gore are given ANY credence, or audience on the subject it shows how little people really know about the facts regarding the environment. I've seen many marine biologists, and scientists ignore the facts for what THEY think is the right thing for the rest of us to do, both Democratic and Republican, but more often than not, Democratic.
                        HA! The leaders of the NOAA are some of the worse. Jim Hansen, chief Climatologist for NASA, was the first to politicize the term Global Warming, before him it was Climate Modulation or Change. Reading his climate model papers is a joke, every variable he doesn't have a number for he puts one in that "he" feels is right (and there are a lot of assumptions!), which of course make the models show a warming trend based on CO2 forcing. But I do agree with the rest of what you said.

                        (Since Dan did a re-introduction, incase you didn't know I'm a geologist educated in California )

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decide on Auto Emissions

                          Originally posted by Brian Lohnes
                          Brad, I was kind of dreaming of the same situation, with the caveat that they hold a press conference and invite Pelosi under the guise of making a, "major breakthrough in business strategy".

                          Stand up there, make your announcement, and then invite her to make remarks.

                          I'd PAY to see the look on her face.

                          Brian
                          The look on her face would be the same, she's made from some form of alien teflon that was found at Area 51. She needs to spend a few hours with Peter North, have an Orange Julius and relax for mankind to survive!!!!!!!!! >
                          Jeremy George in Windsor NY

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decide on Auto Emissions

                            Originally posted by DanStokes
                            Thanks for posting the Automotive News article.

                            It's taking about CO2 - I thought we were talking about tailpipe emissions standards.
                            heh...it was pretty obvious to me right away that they were talking about mileage standards. AZ has been trying to jump on the CA bandwagon on CO2, so this has been in the news here sort of recently. Now that our Dem governor is about to become Obama's DHS head, and our Rep secretary of state will take over as Gov, who knows what'll happen! our state legislature is heavily Rep.

                            My fabulous web page

                            "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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                            • #29
                              Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decide on Auto Emissions

                              how can carbon dioxide be a pollutant ?? humans expell it as we breathe out
                              maybe it has to do with the fairy tale of global warming
                              wait until you get the notice to junk your pre 96 car ......
                              things are going to CHANGE for sure

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Friday Excuse to Go Home Early and Drink: New EPA Boss Wants States to Decid

                                Originally posted by SpiderGearsMan
                                how can carbon dioxide be a pollutant ?? humans expell it as we breathe out
                                maybe it has to do with the fairy tale of global warming
                                wait until you get the notice to junk your pre 96 car ......
                                things are going to CHANGE for sure
                                Of course it has everything to do with the flawed/fake "science" of global warming...or should I say - absolute global control of people. And since you asked, the air you breathe is already taxed in some parts of Europe based on the same CO2 newthink. Under the same Agenda 21 scheme heading our way, it will be here too. Better just lay down and die to serve our earthly masters better.
                                President, Wicked Rides Poland

                                http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showt...eau-Club-Wagon

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