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Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

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  • #16
    Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

    I think everbody hit on some solid thoughts and ideas, but not to dispute LS1 but there are plenty of products made in the USA, parts ,tools,clothing,we just need to spend a little more to buy that product,support our local and national economy. Buying USA will put and keep our people at work. The next time your doing some tin work on your Hot Rod and need a pair of snips,quit running to Wally World or Norrthrn and buying that China or Taiwan product, go to a place that sells Cooper/Wiss snips made in the USA. I dont work for a certain Mfg,but do sell tools and supplies for many( I sell to Manufactured Housing,Utility Tralier Mfg).
    I am not trying to change the thread,but all the little things adds up and affects what we buy,who,how. Cars and homes. Sure bad decisions on some cost us all, we as consumers bought in on what the big 3 was trying to do and achieved, selling us a new car with incentitives,cash back to us ,dealers, low or no interest. Who is it hurting?
    The economy is also in trouble because of the inbalance of the trade between us and other countries,not because we trade, it needs to be more equal, hard to be balanced when China does not have value on there dollar or yen.
    Maybe we need a list on here, a place to post certain products that are American made, Lets help our economy and put the Big 3 and the rest of America back to work.
    I live in Tenn, travel East Tn, all over NC and Southern Va. ,but the guys in Elkhart In are having it rough,no motorhomes getting built, The Mfg Housing guys all over having it rough. Alot of you guys will be in Maxton come April, the track is backyard neighbors to Manis Custom Builders, finally they are working better, Crestline on the other side of 74 hasn't worked 5 days in 9 weeks. Yeah this hurts me ,but I hate to see what it does to the good people I deal with. A friend of mine has a nice 55 Chevy w/ tilt frontend, also was trying to build a 34 Chevy pickup, works at a plant ,when they work,hard to feed the family,much less dabble in our favorite sport.
    Buy American, if your buying or building a house, buy a Custom Modular, you have something you do and need help with,if I can help or buy,tell it.
    realsteelfreak- Jerry



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    • #17
      Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

      It's hard for me to have an ubiased opinion here, but, I think the fat 90's did the most harm to the domestic auto industry. Jac Nasser pretty much single handedly neutered Ford with a very very short sided profit taking agenda. It's tough to think long range when you're making money hand over fist - but these jokers should have known better. We've got to put an end to the elitist mentality in politics and in private business.

      Pelossi shouldn't be on a private jet any more than the big 3 execs on thier way to washington - who caught so much hell over it.

      When times were good the top brass should have been investing in more efficient operations - taking a long look into the future trying to predict market shifts and strategically plan new models, better assembly operations, etc. Instead - for the most part - they gave themselves huge bonuses, cut future programs to make the bottom line look even better, and laughed all the way to the bank.

      At leas the airflow and edsel and so many other "failed models" were an honest try at something new - however poorly executed. These days most companies can't afford to be that bold.
      There's always something new to learn.

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      • #18
        Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

        Very objective, Bruab. Good job on that piece.
        The official Bangshift garage door guru. Just about anything can be built using garage door parts, trust me.

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        • #19
          Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

          I think that Roosevelt probably did not do much after the war, since he was dead and Truman was in office ;)

          I never thought the big 3 were very good at long term business planning, or at building in any more quality than they had to to be competitive. I do think they were pretty good at occasionally giving us neat cars and parts. Not often.

          The quick profit mentalityof the car companies, combined with the quick profit mentality of the financial business, pretty much made the the current situation inevitible. Combine that with the way our legislative system works, and we really should not be at all surprised what happened.

          The big 3 gave the low end market to the imports, and they've gradually taken over the whole thing.
          My fabulous web page

          "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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          • #20
            Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

            Originally posted by dieselgeek
            Originally posted by SpiderGearsMan
            in 02 GM had so much cash , they were thinking of buying HONDA

            yeah right :D

            in 2002 Q3 including their "write downs" they were only losing money at a rate of $1.42 per share. per quarter. Sure they were thinking about buying Honda, just like I think about buying a house overlooking the ocean in SoCal
            so ... I am a liar
            like they didn't buy most of subaru , fiat , more of suzuki , isuzu and daewoo
            I could have been wrong on the exact year , but GM was a major cash cow for decades
            powering the stockmarket and training future toyota employees

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            • #21
              Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

              as well as this piece is written,,
              It leaves out alot of pieces..

              the big three,, had shareholders and bean counters.. that tie'd alot of hands..
              so, it's truely amazing .
              these men we hold in high regard, got anything noteworthly through..

              and when your labor cost per car.. is tiny. compaired to most of the world..
              you can ,afford to spend more .on the "products" materials..

              the laws in this country, that others didn't have to deal with, never helped,either...

              funny, how. americans forget the junk that was imported,p.o.s. rot boxes..from only 10 years ago.
              but will look back on the big three, for their junk, of the same time period!!!!!!!!!
              can't really blame.. the big three, for at the time.. we, the cash paying customer..
              gladly bought those cars..
              we, didn't force their hands to build better cars.. by, not buying the cars..
              we still did .
              when the imports was eating away at the market ..
              imports.. got they're to dig their teeth in.. because of a gas crunch...
              but, most will say. that the big three ,should've learned from that..
              and they did..,, WE DIDN"T
              WE the money paying customer..
              as we went right back to buy'n the big cars/truck/etc
              and leaving the small cars on the dealerships floor..
              can't fault a company for, paying attention to what people are buying .. and improving ,that, that sells..
              sadly, it's come to this...
              but , remember, the media, has a big hand in this..
              recalls on import company cars. are a back page little blip.. if at all..
              one of the big three have anytype of recall or issue.. they are on it.. and it's a headline for a week..
              if not more...
              the american buyers, remembering of what cars . where pos.. is reinforced... by the media.. that doesn't report.. inbiasly
              on recalls and issues. the same way.
              one has to look no farther, than some of the car media. long term reports..
              a pontiac has a chrome exhaust tip fall off. and you think the world was coming to an end..
              but the toyoda(or insert any other make, other than the big3) and it was from "spirted driving"

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              • #22
                Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

                A couple of perspectives -
                My dad was a labor negotiator for Kaiser. When the Unions were getting too strong (and I'm not terribly opposed to unions, but they can get "TOO powerful), Henry J simply pulled up stakes and moved the whole company to Argentina where they continued to make cars for many years - profitably. Granted, Henry J owned a fleet of ships, but...... It was kind of a "No Confidence" vote for the American economy, but I can see his point. BTW - we almost moved there at the time (1955 or so) but Dad was afraid of Juan Perone.

                Second thing - people keep talking about how much lower labor costs are in Japan. This used to be true but has not been in a couple of decades. I suggest folks Google for this if you doubt me. In fact, the Japanese are now "outsourcing" to places like Korea and China. Sound familiar? Their domestic labor has gotten so expensive that they can't, in many cases. afford it and stay competitive on the world stage. And all this in factories that are generally much more modern than ours. Not sticking up for the Japanese, just saying that the difference in labor costs isn't that major of a deal anymore.

                Dan

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                • #23
                  Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

                  Originally posted by DanStokes

                  Second thing - people keep talking about how much lower labor costs are in Japan. This used to be true but has not been in a couple of decades. I suggest folks Google for this if you doubt me. In fact, the Japanese are now "outsourcing" to places like Korea and China. Sound familiar? Their domestic labor has gotten so expensive that they can't, in many cases. afford it and stay competitive on the world stage. And all this in factories that are generally much more modern than ours. Not sticking up for the Japanese, just saying that the difference in labor costs isn't that major of a deal anymore.

                  Dan
                  well outsourcing to china, is outsourcing to themselves..
                  JAPAN the republic of CHINA

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                  • #24
                    Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

                    Um, don't think so bowtie.
                    "Somewhere the zebra is dancing". Garth Stein's The art of racing in the rain.

                    Matt

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                    • #25
                      Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

                      Ignorance is bliss...

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                      • #26
                        Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

                        lottsa viewpoints here. good sh!t. Cause' its a good article. Thought provokin' Brian. Our culture seems to be tied to doing things as fast and cheap as possible. Our financial centers are geared toward CEO's makin' short range decisions to keep stockholders happy - this qtr.... They just don't seem to have that long term mindset. If I ever get to be boss for a day, I'm takin' the day off.
                        Mike in Southwest Ohio

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                        • #27
                          Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

                          Originally posted by min301
                          Ignorance is bliss...
                          yes it is

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                          • #28
                            Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

                            toyota outsources to right to work USA
                            sweeyheart tax deals with the locals increases profits

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                            • #29
                              Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

                              I read this and figured Lohnes was gonna get lynched.

                              IMO, the Edsel and Airflow are bad examples. It was the lack of action during the musclecar era to prep for the gas crunch and emissions laws that started the downslide, and it was crap late-'70s cars that polished them off.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Barnstormin': Were the Big Three Really That Good?

                                Originally posted by Freiburger
                                I read this and figured Lohnes was gonna get lynched.

                                IMO, the Edsel and Airflow are bad examples. It was the lack of action during the musclecar era to prep for the gas crunch and emissions laws that started the downslide, and it was crap late-'70s cars that polished them off.
                                again, funny how everyone remembers.. the big three's faults.. years ago
                                but forgets the junk the imports sold here for years..
                                ya, the honda civic ran for ever..
                                who cared it rotted to the ground.. before it was 7 years old.
                                same with u r a bus /toyo/nissan/ etc
                                they all rotted away... even the ones from the 90's
                                if they are still on the road they are blow'n blue smoke...
                                funny so much american cars from the 70's -80's where junk..
                                but where are all the same year imports?
                                look to your rebar in your house ;D

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