San Antonio Gas Question

[DanStokes]

BSers in San Anto - My bros Vespa just ate an in-tank fuel pump evidently as a result of running E-?? fuel. He says he's having trouble finding non-oxygenated fuel in SA which the scooter shop says would help keep the new (and pricey) pump alive. I suggested airports and/or stations with race gas which I think is non-oxygenated.

Do you guys have any sources?

Thanks

Dan

[Thumpin455]

How old is his scooter? Vintage or new?

[squirrel]

I'd guess it's more likely to be a Vespa problem. I've never had any fuel system problems from gasahol.

puregas.org is how you find the non gasahol stations

[Barry Donovan]

there is cheats to push boundaries.
retard timing as slow as it will idle.
3 degrees is about as tight as a little engine gets on american.
that should slow down the load.

the pump and lines is like a wire..
electricity is like a fluid.
seems righteous to compare the education of the two in both directions...as wires and fluid.

one could do highest american octane, and overdo a fuel adder.
the thicker cleaners or octane boost.

I remember running in a chevelle stranded.
pistons literally shaved down in carvings to conform to the chambers...av gas or nothing.
110 octane.
12.5 to 1 was the silly guess..
it was more like 12.5 to 0

[Deaf Bob]

My BCS tiller's fuel line was eaten by the gas/alky mix we run here..
Had to really take the carb apart and clean it.. Black rubber/plastic was in everything..
I run non-alky premium in it now, starts easier and no more fuel line eaten.. But then I added alky safe lines..
Who knows what the internal parts will take ???
Both are built by Italy? Or is Vespa French?

[squirrel]

Italian. They probably don't have so much corn there.

[DanStokes]

Thanks for the input.

The Vespa is relatively new - (like a 2008 or something) - new enough to have EFI which so far has worked great.

Bob - Vespa's are VERY Italian and are considered kind of the cream of the crop in the scooter world. It's really a smooth little package and this one is pretty quick as it has the 250cc engine IIRC.

Jim - thanks for the internet info - that will help. I'm kind of surprised that a small percent of ethanol would be an issue but evidently the dealer has seen this more than once on these EFI systems. My guess is that the system is Bosch but of course it might be Seimens or Magnetti Marelli (sp?). I'll send him that link.

Dan

[Beagle]

Running them close to empty is harder on them than the fuel. They use the fuel for cooling and an empty tank doesn't offer the same cooling as a full tank. I'm guessing that's because of the fuel heating up if it's a return style or just gasoline is a better coolant than ambient air, hell I don't know. I just decided empty tanks eat fuel pumps from watching broke college kids.

[Aircooled]

The major cities and surrounding counties in Texas are required to sell 10% ethanol fuel. That's 7 counties for D/FW and 5 counties for Houston. I don't know how many counties for the SA area. Marinas and stations outside those areas are not required to sell ethanol, but you (and many times they) never know exactly what they are selling. Ethanol is blended into the fuel at the main distribution centers, so if the wholesale price of ethanol is lower than that of gasoline, you can bet they are blending it in regardless of the need.

If you are really concerned, you can buy test kits.

[DanStokes]

Again, thanks for the input.

I tried Jim's on-line suggestion and they had no stations listed in SA. On a whim I Googled "non-ethanol fuel in San Antonio, TX" and got back a number of hits including quite a long list of Phillips 66 stations and a few Shell stations. I don't know if they're selling it as race gas or what but there were quite a few so they must have found some way around the requirement. We'll see what Dave (my bro) finds when he actually goes to one of the stations.

Dan

[Thumpin455]

Ya know, it might not be the fuel like Beagle said, even if the guy says it is. If it's OK with 10% is ok with 100%, but the small engine people don't want you to run ethanol in your mowers and tillers, because they last longer if you do. So they put stuff in that doesn't work. I've cleaned waxy stuff out of a bunch of small engine carbs, and once that is done they run great on anything. It's like they try to break them so the dealer can sell a new one or charge you for parts and labor.

[DanStokes]

As best as we have been able to find out, whoever makes the pumps (and maybe the rest of the EFI system) is not using ethanol-compatible rubber components and if they soak in ethanol laced fuel for long enough stuff in the system fails with the pump being the most vulnerable as it soaks in the fuel all the time. As Dave pointed out, this one lasted over 5 years so it's a long, slow failure. While I'd never doubt Todd's expertiese in this area if Dave can avoid this as a potential cause of system failure he might as well.

Dan