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Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

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  • Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

    Bluebelle's going in June. I don't know why, but I was just out there in the garage looking around and it fell on me like a sack of bricks.

    Red's racing wheels will fit on Bluebelle, I think. Red's wheels are 18's, Bluebelle's are 17's. Same bolt pattern, I think, I'll prove that by trying one of these soon days. Rock has already accurately called me out for thinking and talking about things I never do. He's right about that, spot on. But I'm always thinking, about something at least.

    The only issue I need to investigate is wheelwell clearance with the steering wheel turned. Red's tires are by-10's. They will look plumb STUPID on that car, two of those on the FRONT of the car since it's front wheel drive. But they're an inch larger in diameter. That, and lug nut compatibility, I'll test and see if it's at all possible to begin with.

    So, with limited horsepower to start with, would there be an advantage to putting the larger wheels on there at the track? And if I throw a couple of Red's racing wheels in the trunk for the trip, can I store them in your pit area for the runs? Just for fun and giggles, something to do and mess with since we'll be there for two days. Now we're talking about a real track trip with a floor jack and jack stands and impact wrench and all kinds of stuff. We've done it two dozen times in Red, and Bluebelle's trunk is larger, but cept for those two huge ass wheels....
    Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

  • #2

    Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

    Taller tires equal more MPH in theory. Aerodynamics might change on the car, and no one can estimate the effect on Bluebelle. I'm no expert, but there is no harm in trying it that I can see.
    Act your age, not your shoe size. - Prince

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    • #3

      Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

      Taller tires equal more MPH in theory. Aerodynamics might change on the car, and no one can estimate the effect on Bluebelle. I'm no expert, but there is no harm in trying it that I can see.
      I'm kind of at a loss, in between. Maybe even SMALLER wheels may allow her to keep the RPMs up before she runs out of track. I ask because I for sure don't know. When she went 131 at Ohio, she was still pulling in the time trap with the stock setup. Now she's theoretically got a few more ponies with the CAI and a tune to go with it.

      Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

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      • #4

        Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

        It's something to try. At some point I'll run Mutt w/o front air dam. EVERYBODY knows that it helps and it probably does but you can't know the difference if you don't try. LSR is a LOT about trying stuff. If you have RPM left at the end of the track it may not make much difference but it might.

        Look carefully for interference with control arms and other chassis bits. I expect it should clear the brakes by a LOT but at least look. Also - are they really taller? A lot of race tires have a pretty low aspect ratio and they might not be much different - or they might. Worth taking a measurement.

        I don't have a covered trailer but you're welcome to stash the tires in my area if you wish. You could chain 'em to the front bar on my trailer if you want so bring equipment for that if you want to. I have an aluminum "Racing Jack" (dunno what class it runs in but it's a HF) so don't bring the jack unless you really want to. I don't have a cordless impact so that might be a nice thing.

        Look forward to seeing you there and this time you're GOING to eat with us guys! (I still remember you sneaking away at Buffalo Wild Wings in Wilmington). You belong at that table.

        Dan
        Last edited by DanStokes; May 18th, 2018, 08:12 AM.

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        • #5

          Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

          . You could chain 'em to the front bar on my trailer if you want so bring equipment for that if you want to. I have an aluminum "Racing Jack" (dunno what class it runs in but it's a HF) so don't bring the jack unless you really want to. I don't have a cordless impact so that might be a nice thing.


          Dan
          Wow. Okay and 10-4 and thank you on your jack and I have the impact wrench for the both of us if you need it.

          Thank you Dan!!!!!! Se ya there.

          EDIT: BTW - The impact wrench is half inch drive and I only have a socket to fit my own lugs, so prepare accordingly.

          Edit: I'll also bring a 1/2 drive torque wrench. Unless you travel with one already.
          Last edited by pdub; May 17th, 2018, 03:10 PM.
          Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

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          • #6

            Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

            I have a 1/2" set that lives in Truck as well as other necessary tools to make Mutt go down the track (and to harvest stuff at Pick & Pull) so we'll have a decent selection. This will be (as always) FUN!

            Dan

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            • #7

              Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

              O.K., dumb question maybe, but does BlueBelle have a Tach? Shift points are CRITICAL. I tried drag racing a car by calculating the shift points by how many mph past the stock upshift. Was using like 35 MPH more. Come to find out that was STILL in the low 5K area. When I added the tach and went 6,500 I picked up OVER a full second. If she DOES have a tach what RPM does she run at the top end? You might go faster in a lower gear if you have the RPM available. It has to do with peak HP and peak Torque. I don't recommend Dyno pulls though. Sure way to break stuff. More off track testing?
              Last edited by RockJustRock; May 17th, 2018, 07:43 PM.
              My hobby is needing a hobby.

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              • #8

                Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

                does BlueBelle have a Tach? Shift points are CRITICAL.
                Yes and yes they are. The second Ohio race I took her to was a two-day event but I could only stay for one day of it. I had the tune on her and it was a pretty day so it was apparent I'd get multiple runs in so I experimented.

                First run, which I considered to be a baseline, I just mashed the gas down and held it and let the car shift itself. She went 126.

                After that, I shifted the car myself. Her little rat trap is redlined at 6500 and shifting it myself she went 131. Huge difference.

                Vic and Terri were in a different spot in line and they'd made their last run of the day when I wanted to make another one. We were going to eat together so they stood around and waited for me to make another run at the end of the day. On the previous run I had hit the rev limiter leaving the line in first gear. I felt sure that had cost me about another MPH so I wanted to try one more time. Last run I shifted clean and only got another tenth of a MPH at the trap.

                So sometimes big stuff is only little stuff. Or little stuff can be big stuff. It's a fun thing and a mile is a long way when you get down to it. Dang that's fun.
                Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

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                • #9

                  Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

                  Well, you didn't give a trap RPM but it sounds like you are running out of track. So it will be a balance between loss of acceleration right off the line vs. that last shift and being deeper into the torque curve in high gear. Or you might go REALLY slow because after all..... you will be going uphill!
                  My hobby is needing a hobby.

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                  • #10

                    Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

                    Well, you didn't give a trap RPM but it sounds like you are running out of track. So it will be a balance between loss of acceleration right off the line vs. that last shift and being deeper into the torque curve in high gear. Or you might go REALLY slow because after all..... you will be going uphill!
                    A great analogy. I may not take the big wheels at all, it was just a thought, like all other thoughts. And Bluebelle has no "torque curve." Red sure as heck does, but BB doesn't. You've talked me out of it (the big wheels). Lots simpler to go without them.
                    Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

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                    • #11

                      Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

                      The question may loom, why am I taking Bluebelle instead of Red to Arkansas in June? It's the fun factor. I've got BB fixed up to go faster than that particular car is supposed to go. And at my age I've learned not to take anything for granted. I had that road course event all booked and ended up having to give that spot to Diane because of a health issue.

                      It's the fun factor. If I only get to go once, and I intend to go twice and take Red the second time this year, BB is the first choice for fun factor. Red will for sure haul ass, but I need some assurance that I can run Red without breaking the rules. I want to talk with Turk about that when I'm there in June. I THINK I can take Red up to 149 per the new rule book, but I want to have fun with Bluebelle first. Three Stooges silly fun. And it IS fun.
                      Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

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                      • #12

                        Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

                        At Ohio.... It's so much fun walking around and talking with the participants. It's like getting inside information that you can't use. There was a guy there with a streamliner. The trailer-it race car. I had seen it at every ECTA event I've attended.

                        The guy was saying, the transmission, whatever it was, it was very difficult to get into third gear. So I stood there and watched him run. First, second.....like clockwork, he coasted for quite a while before he got it into third gear. That's just neat, finding out about the cars. That's very much a part of the overall fun.
                        Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

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                        • #13

                          Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

                          If you got the speed limiter off and still have rpm I don't think the talk tires will help.

                          I was hitting the limiter on my Mark 8 put taller tires on went a little fast not fast enough to hit the limiter. Didn't have enough power to push up to the limit.
                          http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum...-consolidation

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                          • #14

                            Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

                            If you got the speed limiter off and still have rpm I don't think the talk tires will help.

                            I was hitting the limiter on my Mark 8 put taller tires on went a little fast not fast enough to hit the limiter. Didn't have enough power to push up to the limit.
                            Kinda what I have ended up thinking after all Russell, thanks! Maybe with a zillion horsepower we could spin those larger wheels for more top end.
                            Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

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                            • #15

                              Re: Hey Dan Stokes - A Land Speed Technical Question

                              BlueBelle needs a bottle.
                              My hobby is needing a hobby.

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