"Street Buggies," 'Strip-downs", "Vette-Karts" and the Upcoming Salvage Yard Drought.

[Monster]

no one thought the rat rod thing would take off either. Just say'n.

I find it intriguing that you feel qualified to speak on everyone's behalf. I for one, never thought that. Rat rods are still cars and have an artistic coolness about them. Just say'n ...

[cstmwgn]

... are ugly and look horrible. Who can take pride in that, no matter how fun it is ?

WOW - so if this was taken out of context - what might one think?

[Eric]

I find it intriguing that you feel qualified to speak on everyone's behalf. I for one, never thought that. Rat rods are still cars and have an artistic coolness about them. Just say'n ...

I'm not speaking on anyones behalf, other than mine.
gezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I'm out.

[Monster]

I'm not speaking on anyones behalf, other than mine.

You stated; "no one thought the rat rod thing would take off", which is an all-inclusive statement. If you had said "I didn't think the rat rod thing would take off", then I wouldn't have said what I did.

[Gateclyve Photographic]

You're either not listening, not paying attention, or both .. it's a big fat no, because the body stripped chassis POS you propose are ugly and look horrible. Who can take pride in that, no matter how fun it is ?

Probably guilty as charged.

I read too much antique hot rodding stuff from my own library and on inter-library loan (Yes kids, not every library has sold off the 60+ year old car stuff.)

Interestingly the towering profiles and "footprints" of today's "family" SUV/CUV remind me of the tippy, high-riding sedans of the 1930s and 1940s. "Longer, lower and wider" is dead.



And when Road and Track's "Performance Car of the Year" test includes at least two high-horsepower SUVs, It probably means the future will be increasingly oversized and factory-built luxury-performance CUVs and light trucks.

(Never fear: "Rodent Track" cashed the GM checks and awarded the PCOTY award to a winged Corvette built across-the-street from the PCOTY test track (NCM) -- a wiinner that costs as much as a non-coastal house which subjectively 'beat" competitors costing as much as a SoCal bungalow).

The industry insiders "interviewed" by R/T for the PCOTY stories even suggest growing separation from mainstream products and increasingly expensive high-performance specialty models . . . Lower volumes, more automation, and much, much higher prices . . ..

Monster is also right that many if not most high-performance vehicles sell on visceral, emotional reactions embodied by styling. "Analog" muscle now brings huge bounties at auction not because it's quicker and faster than the government-regulated, sanitized modern "digital" stuff (it's not . . . even prosaic minivans can whip a lot of vintage G.T.O.s in instrumented testing), but because of how we perceive it and react to it .

It's also incredibly easy to build a rolling ugly if the details are wrong. Even Detroit misses at times (see e.g. Plymouth Prowler, Chevrolet HHR, the Mitsubishi Model A . . . .).


Simply awful . . . .


Someone daring to build a minimalist performance vehicle inspired by the racing idioms of the first fifty years of gasoline motoring must be a serious student of make-or-break details -- such as radiator and engine placement (not ahead of the front axle centerline), wheelbase and the relationship of driver and steering wheel placement to the rear tires, and overhangs. Just cutting off a modern body and welding on some chassis stiffeners and rollover protection won't do.

This discussion has always been about forecasting whether a micro-niche build style would ever become a slightly larger niche.

[Gateclyve Photographic]

It could be not almost as fun, but indeed more fun.

That is, until some keyboard commandos took pictures of the object of the fun and posted said pictures on a thread labeled “Abominations and Aberrations” or constructed endless “Memes” questioning the vision and talents of the builders.

Its a a cruel world nowadays, with little room for individual creativity, and a lot of room for public shaming.

Sadly you're right. When I see every soccer mom on the interstate jabbering on the cell phone or dolling on make-up in hideous, jacked-up, poor-handling "off road", metallic-colored, truck-like station wagons (that you need to read the "stinkin' badges to identify), and nearly every dude in some sort of hulking, brick-like pickup truck, it reminds me of how I hated what I thought was stylistic uniformity in the '70s (neo-classic "opera window" coupes and corpulent, wheezing sedans with fake Mercedes radiator grilles) or even of earlier automotive fads.

The vast majority of motorists are lemmings who won't dare venture outside of narrow stylistic paths decided for them by others. We;'re tribal people. It's human nature I guess.

[squirrel]

Someone daring to build a minimalist performance vehicle inspired by the racing idioms of the first fifty years of gasoline motoring must be a serious student of make-or-break details -- such as radiator and engine placement (not ahead of the front axle centerline), wheelbase and the relationship of driver and steering wheel placement to the rear tires, and overhangs. Just cutting off a modern body and welding on some chassis stiffeners and rollover protection won't do.

which is why the Vette Kart actually looks half decent, compared to the Ugly Truckling. (FEDs always looked so much better to me than rear engine dragsters, too)

Why is taller in vogue today? I don't know for sure, but my wife says she really likes driving her Silverado, because she can see ahead of her. That might have something to do with it. Unfortunately, that makes it into an arms race....which seems to be the case, looking at the latest truck/SUVs.

When comparing modern muscle cars to their 50 year old ancestors, we see that creature comforts are now a basic requirement, where they used to be either optional, or not allowed. This trend alone tells me that we're not likely to see a lot of bare hot rods driven around.

But still, you should design one of these cars, even if you don't build it, so we can see what a good one looks like. You do seem to have a good understanding.

[RockJustRock]

Whenever I think ground up building a car I keep going back to the Factory Five type packages. Very pricey but if all you want is go, they got it. I think they could exploit the market better with a moly, fiber and alloy lighter, faster version of the 34 kit.

As far as stripping down anything your classic Fox body is pretty much pre-stripped.

[Eric]

You stated; "no one thought the rat rod thing would take off", which is an all-inclusive statement. If you had said "I didn't think the rat rod thing would take off", then I wouldn't have said what I did.

[Eric]

which is why the Vette Kart actually looks half decent, compared to the Ugly Truckling.

I find that comical. as the roll bar lines are a direct copy of an AMC pacers roof and tail. and not many find the Pacer handsome.
I love the vette cart. and if I ever find a c4 that is cheap enough and not a rotted/rusted out mess of a frame, I'll make one. it is a dune buggy that is on rails. well on rails once you put shocks and springs on it to account for the lack of weight.

[ratpatrol66]

You want Pacers?

[ratpatrol66]

[Monster]

Okay .. now that's funny.

[Gateclyve Photographic]

You want Pacers?

A horrible, obscene waste of scarce product development funds.

BTW, "Maximum" Bob Lutz (whom I suspect is sometimes a revisionist historian) recently wrote an interesting piece on the demise of AMC. His thesis was that they wasted their product development money on stuff other than Jeeps. The problem accelerated in the Pacer era, which essentially led to the split-off of AM General (the cash-generating government/military side of the business that could not have any foreign ownership) and the virtual takeover by Renault. AMC then blew most of its capital on stuff the French liked but Americans mostly didn't. Perhaps the lone exception was the unibody "XJ" Cherokee . . . which pretty much laid out the architecture for many of today's SUVs.

Chrysler bought the whole failing mess, canned the bland, unpopular, low-performance French sleds (some of the people and a few ideas reportedly resurfaced in the LH platform), and invested heavily in the remaining Jeep products.

How anyone with any fundamental understanding of motoring (even "dark ages" mid-1970s-style motoring) or vehicle aesthetics ever thought the Pacer was a worthy idea is a profound mystery.

[Deaf Bob]

Pacers are the Imperials of the mini derbies.. Tough tough cars..
They had pretty good crashability survivability when they came out
Some venues ban Pacers just like Imperials..
I kinda like the looks...