Oregon went viral.... oh DB, you may not want to watch this

[SuperBuickGuy]

[RockJustRock]

That cops name must be Richard. I mean he sure acts like a Dick.

[Monster]

Telling a Trooper that he's confused, is not a great start to a conversation.

[RockJustRock]

The trooper needs to realize people that drive $200,000 sportscars usually aren't stupid. In reality he indeed WAS confused (which is a polite way of saying stupid). The "another call, gotta run" escape was when he realized the insurance, his ace in the hole, was taken care of too and the harassment was about to bite him back. Sometimes you need to ask "Do YOU know why you pulled ME over, officer?".

[STINEY]

An extremely high-dollar exotic vehicle with irregular plates IS just cause for a random stop. These guys DO put their lives on the line every day......and deal with the worst that society has to offer.

Am I a LEO fan? Not exactly. I take issue with Ohio State Highway Patrol in particular. Oh, sorry, they recently changed their nomenclature to Ohio State Patrol. Handy, that little power grab that went unnoticed and unreported. Guess their political handlers needed to extent their jurisdiction for some reason.

Give me the duly elected Sheriffs Office any day. One per county, answerable to the electorate on a regular basis.

On the flip side, if more people could behave themselves there would be little need for laws or enforcement.

Its all relative.

Officer AND the driver were both cocky dinks from what I saw. Karma was served to all involved in my opinion.

[RockJustRock]

Cocky? Maybe. But the driver wasn't "confused". The officer WAS.

[pdub]

I met that cop's twin in Savannah, Georgia about 30 years ago. I was on a bicycle trip, just trying to follow US17 on the map. Well, I went up a ramp and the road transformed into a divided limited-access highway, just like that. I made it about a mile when the cop lit me up, pulled me over on my touring bicycle. He got out of his car already yammering, "You've got to get YOUR bicycle off of MY highway right NOW!!!"" I explained to him that I was traveling and stepped into this road I don't want to be on anyhow. "You get off of MY highway right up there (next exit about 1/4 mile away)" Yessir, sure will, thank you! That WAS the get-off for the lesser version of US17 anyhow.

[Shep48COE]

“For the most part, there is a certain type of individual that gravitates towards being a cop. There a few exceptions, a few.”

[Gateclyve Photographic]

That cops name must be Richard. I mean he sure acts like a Dick.

Actually the trooper handled the stop in a professional manner.

He had probable cause for the stop.

(Edit: LEOs and criminal lawyers may blanch at my use of the term "probable cause" when likely the more legally accurate term under these facts is the lesser "reasonable suspicion" standard. Either way, the trooper had an articulable belief based on observable fact (i.e. lack of a proper licence plate) to stop the car and inquire further. See generally Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968)(reasonable suspicion standard for police inquiry of persons on the street); Whren v. United States, 517 U.S. 806 (1996)(traffic offense is reasonable basis for further inquiry)

Moreover, [Remy's "Guy in the CAR" (such a poetic phrase)] was likely wrong on the law.

People who drive in the U.S. must have a valid driver's license. Some states require an International Driving Permit (IDP) from foreign nationals, in addition to a valid license from your own country. Contact the motor vehicle department of each state you will drive in for its requirements.

http://www.usa.gov/visitors-driving

Cars imported into the US by tourists can be driven on foreign registration plates for up to one year from the date of arrival, provided the country of registration is party to the UN Convention on Road Traffic (Geneva, 1949) and the Convention on the Regulation of Inter-American Automotive Traffic (Washington, 1943).

If your home country isn’t a signatory to these conventions, you must obtain registration plates from the authorities in the state where the vehicle is landed. A foreign registered car must display the appropriate international sign at the rear (excluding Canadian and Mexican registered vehicles). If you own a car with foreign plates and intend to work or study in the US, you must obtain US plates in accordance with the regulations in the state where you’re residing. The regulations applicable to registration plates for tourists and residents also apply to foreign driving licences.

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Un...le-regulations


A review of UN Convention on Road Traffic (http://treaties.un.org/doc/Publicati.../xi-b-1.en.pdf ) and Convention on the Regulation of Inter-American Automotive Traffic ( https://www.loc.gov/law/help/us-trea...00003-0865.pdf ) does not suggest that Dubai is a signatory of either.

Assuming the vehicle "landed" in Washington, the state apparently does have a temporary registration provision (I do not know whether or not there's a more specific state law) See WAC 308-56A-140 (http://app.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=308-56A-140) Oregon also has a "trip permit" provision http://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages...rippermit.aspx

BOTTOM LINE: You can "H8" on LEOs all you want . . . it's a free country . . . but in this case, the officer was properly (and very professionally) inquiring about a suspected violation of state law.

BACK THE BLUE!

[SuperBuickGuy]

Actually the trooper handled the stop in a professional manner.

He had certainly had probable cause for the stop.

Moreover, Doobie Dubai was likely wrong on the law.

http://www.usa.gov/visitors-driving

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Un...le-regulations


A review of UN Convention on Road Traffic (http://treaties.un.org/doc/Publicati.../xi-b-1.en.pdf ) and Convention on the Regulation of Inter-American Automotive Traffic ( https://www.loc.gov/law/help/us-trea...00003-0865.pdf ) does not suggest that Dubai is a signatory of either.

Assuming the vehicle "landed" in Washington, the state apparently does have a temporary registration provision (I do not know whether or not there's a more specific state law) See WAC 308-56A-140 (http://app.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=308-56A-140) Oregon also has a "trip permit" provision http://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages...rippermit.aspx

BOTTOM LINE: You can "H8" on LEOs all you want . . . it's a free country . . . but in this case, the officer was properly (and very professionally) inquiring about a suspected violation of state law.

BACK THE BLUE!

sorry, you're way off. Imagine this - the US agrees to allow immigrants into the US. However, a State does not like that particular immigrant group - thus, they say "no, you cannot come into our State".... Fed law trumps (heh a pun), State law. In this case, there's a number of international agreements which are codified and enforced by US Customs. This guy was fully within his right, and the State cannot prevent it.

If you want to drive in any of the signatory countries of the agreement which allows international driver's licenses, you can. You are afforded the same rights and privileges as you enjoy in your home country. Signatory countries cannot tax or deny entry to those vehicles. Ever seen videos of people travelling from Alaska to Chile? it's by that very agreement that they are allowed to do. Even if Dubai isn't a signatory, the cop didn't even know how to 'check' to validate the license. Further, the issuing country could have been Canada....

It didn't land in Washington, it landed in BC.... you know, that bit where the cop was talking over him.

If Customs allows the vehicle into the States, then a State cannot say no. While he certainly has every right to inquire if it believes a law was violated; that really isn't the biggest issue. What he said was wrong (at law). He compounded his error by falling back into his aggressive manner. Not just that but the poor professionalism of talking over the driver is not something to be encouraged in any manner. He was wrong at law and in professionalism. His final mistake was not acknowledging that he learned something - but given his condescending attitude and disrespect by talking over the driver... it's really not surprising but predictable. My thought - when the cop went away with his lights on was "run away you fool"

And since when is criticism hatred? Let's help you, the lawyer, understand something.... The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. Note, there was no anti-cop rhetoric *until you brought it up* of anything other then criticism and sympathy towards other police officers who get painted into a corner by this punk. Too bad you can't flip your lights on and run away, eh?

and let's get to the final bit - you know Deaf Bob's son-in-law is an Oregon State Cop who works in that area and probably knows the offending cop?....

and finally, as an aside, I've always thought the "international driver's license" rubric was hilarious. As long as whoever issues you the license, you can do whatever because there is no record of the issuance. Let's make this simpler - a cop, who has someone stopped at a traffic stop is not going to be able to call the home country and verify that the license is valid.... which means that if you get suspended or revoked in the states, run to your local AAA, get an international license while you still can, then leave the country for your license suspension period... you can drive as long as you have a passport.

of course, we can't help but remark at your comment about 'doobie dubai' .... what, exactly, is that? from my chair that sounds pretty terrible. maybe you should take a bit of care in how your words sound to others?

[RockJustRock]

I look at it as "What was the law officer protecting the public from?". Do unregistered $200,000 sports cars exhibit a tendency to crash into things and cause injury? No. What the officer was concerned about was SOMEONE GETTING AWAY WITH SOMETHING. The officer was doing the part of his job which coincidentally generates revenue as a way of dealing out punishment. If this happens IN CONJUNCTION with promoting safety, fine. If law dogs just go out and prowl looking for candidates to pay the bills not so fine. And puhleeease, no ethnic slurs here ya dumb Okie! The middle east is not the cradle of all that is evil.

[Gateclyve Photographic]

sorry, you're way off. Imagine this - the US agrees to allow immigrants into the US. However, a State does not like that particular immigrant group - thus, they say "no, you cannot come into our State".... Fed law trumps (heh a pun), State law. In this case, there's a number of international agreements which are codified and enforced by US Customs. This guy was fully within his right, and the State cannot prevent it.

1. Nothing in the stop suggests any racial or cultural animus on the part of the trooper. How would he even know before he pulled the vehicle over that the driver was a visiting alien?

2. Merely because U.S. Customs (USCBP) allows importation of a vehicle does not equate to an unlimited right to operate it on the roads. Asking for proof of a driving license isn't the same as saying one does not have one. It's a standard police stop inquiry.

3. Driving, of course, is not a "right", it is a privilege. There is nothing wrong with any LEO asking for proof of compliance with driver licencing, insurance and vehicle registration laws.

4. I am surprised that Oregon or any jurisdiction accepts proof of insurance via cell phone.

If you want to drive in any of the signatory countries of the agreement which allows international driver's licenses, you can.

1. Where is there any proof that [Remy's "Guy in the CAR" (such a poetic phrase)] was from a "signatory" nation? Hmm?

2. How do we know that the mess of documents presented weren't ultimately accepted by the trooper as presumptively valid?

You are afforded the same rights and privileges as you enjoy in your home country. Signatory countries cannot tax or deny entry to those vehicles.

Is Dubai a "signatory" country? Where is the proof? I believe I posted links to documents that said they were not.

Ever seen videos of people travelling from Alaska to Chile? it's by that very agreement that they are allowed to do.

Of course, see Convention on the Regulation of Inter-American Automotive Traffic, supra.

Even if Dubai isn't a signatory, the cop didn't even know how to 'check' to validate the license. Further, the issuing country could have been Canada....

Objection: speculation; assumes facts not in evidence. How do we know what the trooper would have done had he not received another call? How do we know what the trooper did when he was off-camera?

It didn't land in Washington, it landed in BC.... you know, that bit where the cop was talking over him.

1. BC is in CANADA. It is not a US state (I suspect it's not even one of the extra secret seven once suggested by the 44th President . . . . )

2. The state it landed in is the state adjacent to Canada where he drove it into the US.

3. Merely because he crossed the border does not mean that the vehicle was immediately compliant with applicable registration law.

4. Had the car been sporting Canadian plates, would it have been pulled over? Doubtful.

If Customs allows the vehicle into the States, then a State cannot say no.

So a state cannot require registration of any foreign vehicle if its importation is approved by USCBP? This does not rebut the treaty analysis, supra.

While he certainly has every right to inquire if it believes a law was violated; that really isn't the biggest issue. What he said was wrong (at law).

What specifically was wrong (at law)?

He compounded his error by falling back into his aggressive manner. Not just that but the poor professionalism of talking over the driver is not something to be encouraged in any manner. He was wrong at law and in professionalism.

1. He was not unreasonably "aggressive."

2. The video plainly distorts the communication issue because the dash-mounted microphone was much better able to hear what mush-mouth [Remy's "Guy in the CAR" (such a poetic phrase)] was jabbering in his heavily-accented English than a trooper standing outside on the passenger side of a low-slung sports car next to (apparently) a busy and noisy interstate highway. Thus, what some mistake for "aggression" is merely trying to communicate.

3. [Remy's "Guy in the CAR" (such a poetic phrase)] was not helping the situation with his rudeness, impatience, poor communication ability, disorganization and apparent lack of understanding of his own travel documents.

His final mistake was not acknowledging that he learned something - but given his condescending attitude and disrespect by talking over the driver... it's really not surprising but predictable. My thought - when the cop went away with his lights on was "run away you fool"

Objection: speculation

And since when is criticism hatred? Let's help you, the lawyer, understand something.... The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. Note, there was no anti-cop rhetoric *until you brought it up* of anything other then criticism and sympathy towards other police officers who get painted into a corner by this punk.

1. From earlier in this thread:
a. “For the most part, there is a certain type of individual that gravitates towards being a cop. There a few exceptions, a few.”

b. "That cops name must be Richard. I mean he sure acts like a Dick."

c. pdub's bicycling on a controlled-access highway post

2,. Read into the BS context of other police-critical threads, the theme of police "criticism" is becoming increasingly common here.

and let's get to the final bit - you know Deaf Bob's son-in-law is an Oregon State Cop who works in that area and probably knows the offending cop?....

Objection: Relevance.

and finally, as an aside, I've always thought the "international driver's license" rubric was hilarious. As long as whoever issues you the license, you can do whatever because there is no record of the issuance. Let's make this simpler - a cop, who has someone stopped at a traffic stop is not going to be able to call the home country and verify that the license is valid.... which means that if you get suspended or revoked in the states, run to your local AAA, get an international license while you still can, then leave the country for your license suspension period... you can drive as long as you have a passport.

Passport = Drivers licence. Perhaps when the Federal Government opens back up. one could suggest http://www.usa.gov/visitors-driving update the website to include that gem.

Nice discussion. No minds will be changed.

[RockJustRock]

If anyone believes that cop knew anything about driving in other countries on permits they must be a "special" kind of...… uhh person.

[SuperBuickGuy]

outside of the diatribe and the appearance of authority (after all, how can you overrule an objection if you have no authority over the subject, the matter, or the person?), which, to date, I've seen no proof then your objections are like Roadkill, irrelevant and useless in real life.

And if you are a Washington judge, you're part of the 10% who seem to think ruling against me is okay to do, you still lack SMJ - the rest are excellent jurists and wise beyond their years. I digress

you missed the entire point and demonstrated with the relevance objection. Unless something has a personal effect, it doesn't get posted here.

The government is closed? I hadn't noticed... oh wait, I do get that delightful sense of additional freedom. In any case, I never argue for more laws.... I leave that to the ones who want the government to be re-opened.

[SuperBuickGuy]

If anyone believes that cop knew anything about driving in other countries on permits they must be a "special" kind of...… uhh person.

I laughed when he said "I wouldn't drive in another country!" smaracre me would have asked "why not, your home has wheels" then probably had to argue myself out of jail during the bail hearing.