Toyota Controversy

[RockJustRock]

I just find it interesting the price only went up $10K or 25% over 22 years. Can any U.S. sporty cars claim that?

[Dan Barlow]

Looks like they have taken the Porsche 911 philosophy just keep building the same car and just tweak it every so often .

[pdub]

Good point Rock, raw logic. That is, if anybody over 25 years old wants to be 'seen" driving one.

[RockJustRock]

I dunno, thinking about 1998 vs, 2020 Mustang prices..... Camaro? Challenger?

[RustyRodder]

Well, they did let BMW do all the hardwork...and parts development..and building the parts

[SuperBuickGuy]

the controversy is that BMW built the car and Toyota skinned it. Of course, there's that other issue - I haven't heard anyone claim (at least with a straight face) that German cars are reliable..... that leads to a problem, Toyota is known for reliability, BMW isn't - but by badging that as a Toyota, how many are going to think "Oh that was a BMW part that failed?"

[Eric]

Oh, look, a Toyota in badge only. BMW powered and everything

[pdub]

Germans lost my faith back in my working days. Another factory, not the one I worked at. But they were nearby, just across the river. They nearly blew up the world, twice. Evacuations ordered. No, they're not so good as they think they are.

[Eric]

Germans lost my faith back in my working days. Another factory, not the one I worked at. But they were nearby, just across the river. They nearly blew up the world, twice. Evacuations ordered. No, they're not so good as they think they are.

It goes with that ole say'n." if you tell a lie enough times"
like say maybe German engineering. or. Toyota reliability, .
bonus points they get to keep making the same piece or crap (911) for decades. and people fawn over it. any other vehicle that is on same platform for more than 5 years never mind 5+ decades are said to be outdated by the same people. WTF??

[Dan Barlow]

The trick is to keep making them a little better . Chevy did it with the 3rd gen Vette and 2nd gen Camaro but the let the quality slide down hill to the point nobody was re as ll wanting them . Ok 14 years and 11 .

[SuperBuickGuy]

It goes with that ole say'n." if you tell a lie enough times"
like say maybe German engineering. or. Toyota reliability, .
bonus points they get to keep making the same piece or crap (911) for decades. and people fawn over it. any other vehicle that is on same platform for more than 5 years never mind 5+ decades are said to be outdated by the same people. WTF??

that's German stubborness - they know it's not better, but if you drive one now vs any early 911, they're worlds better.... but still will throw you, tail first, into a wall - only difference is the velocity will be far greater. That said the Germans 'can't' be wrong, thus they keep trying and trying and trying and trying to get it right.... there are people like that - they tend to buy those cars.

[SuperBuickGuy]

The trick is to keep making them a little better . Chevy did it with the 3rd gen Vette and 2nd gen Camaro but the let the quality slide down hill to the point nobody was re as ll wanting them . Ok 14 years and 11 .

let? ummmm, I don't think the engineering was the issue... but let's not open up that can of worms - whether it was stupid regulations or poor work ethic, I know I can make a C3 handle very, very well within its own architecture (PF2 not withstanding).

[RockJustRock]

Say what you like about Germans, but the 911 is by no means a piece of crap. It went faster and faster. Now the C3 and Gen 2 on the other hand...… Dead horses. GM could have weathered the malaise much classier and more gracefully. I don't think it would have been too much of a leap of technology for the General to have released the C4 and Gen 3 in the late 70s.

I wasn't aware of HOW MUCH controversy surrounded the Supra, I just liked how that meme summed it up. I don't like my manufacturers sleeping around with each other though. Can the 86 and BRZ really be called successes? Toyota just can't seem to ring the market's bells like Nissan did with the Z cars and GTRs. Toyota is just the ugly sister. I guess that would make Honda the kinda cute but wacky little sister? I mean they were late to the car game.

[SuperBuickGuy]

I wasn't aware of HOW MUCH controversy surrounded the Supra, I just liked how that meme summed it up. I don't like my manufacturers sleeping around with each other though. Can the 86 and BRZ really be called successes? Toyota just can't seem to ring the market's bells like Nissan did with the Z cars and GTRs. Toyota is just the ugly sister. I guess that would make Honda the kinda cute but wacky little sister? I mean they were late to the car game.

German-car-lovers hate the Supra because it's a Toyota. Toyota-car-lovers hate it because it's a BMW.... for me... it's all

[tardis454]

I'm German, we're stubborn. Germany makes crap cars, but they also make some of the best automation equipment which is used to produce everyone else's stuff. One of the engineers at work drives Audis and VW's. We had a heated discussion about Domestic Vs Euro. He swears by "Quality German Engineering". I told him my 20yr old rusty Jeep is exponentially more reliable than his 3yr old Audi and that Audis are best driven for 2yrs and traded in for replacements. He scoffed, said I was crazy.., Jeeps are crap (he's right, most Jeeps are crap) he said he's NEVER had a problem with his Audi or his VW's. I knew that statement was a blatant lie.. A few months later he's seen driving a BMW loaner car. I ask, "What happened to the Audi? You trade it in?" Long pause.... "No, it's in the shop... sighs..." His Audi was in the shop for 6 weeks waiting for engine parts to arrive from Germany so they could 'start' fixing it. He never ragged on Domestics again, at least not to me.

I wish Toyota luck with this venture. Hopefully they don't get burned.