Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

    Pete Pistone (https://twitter.com/ppistone?lang=en ) and Mike Bagley (https://twitter.com/themikebagley?lang=en ) were discussing the new "Unrivaled: Earnhardt vs Gordon" documentary on SiriusXM NASCAR Channel 90.

    Pistone's theory is that maybe a motorsports rivalry such as the one between Earnhardt and Gordon isn't possible in the era of social media immediacy and 24/7 sports coverage. He suggested that what allowed the "turf" war to brew among the 3 and 24 and their respective fans was that coverage of the sport was then limited to weekly tv and radio, newspapers and magazines. So when something would come out in the media or at the track, folks had time to stew about it, instead of immediately venting.

    When we look back in the sport of drag racing, we see lots of rivalries . . . the "cam wars" that played out during the gasser era . . . Snake and Mongoo$e . . . Garlits and Muldowney (really Muldowney versus the men . . . .) . . . .

    So . . . what about racing rivalries?

    Are they good? Are they necessary to stoke racing fan interest?

    Are they even still possible? Or have the stakes of big corporate money and image-tuned "corporate" drivers sapped some of the fire? And is Pistone correct in his theory that social media and the ability to instantly go emotionally nuclear has snuffed out the necessary conditions that allow rivalries to burn without becoming toxic?

    Are there rivalries at Bangshift? Should there be?
    Monk likes this.

  • #2

    Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

    Camshaft wars were big back in the day and competition pretty fierce




    Click image for larger version

Name:	howard-johansen-cam-advertisement a.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	64.3 KB
ID:	1233565



    Click image for larger version

Name:	herbert-cams-ad.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	92.0 KB
ID:	1233566
    Thom

    "The object is to keep your balls on the table and knock everybody else's off..."

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

      I never liked drama and still don't. One of the reasons I turned away from NASCAR-type racing was exactly this. Can't we all just get along, have fun, and see what our cars will do? There is a faster F/DT in the world than Mutt - the Tracer Racing Dakota. I met the guy at Bonneville - nice man. No rivalry on my part (and I don't think on his either) but his efforts DO spur me to wring more out of Mutt as I know there's more in there.

      Dan
      Last edited by DanStokes; February 21st, 2019, 08:00 AM.

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

        It always seemed to me that at Bonneville, the "rivals" were the clocks, the air and the salt . . . .
        DanStokes likes this.

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

          It always seemed to me that at Bonneville, the "rivals" were the clocks, the air and the salt . . . .
          Agreed. I haven't seen or heard about that at (short course) land speed. At Maxton as spectators, we saw guys taking a carb off of a car and putting it on another, run after run.

          When I ran Bluebelle in Ohio, nobody there ever gave me any grief. And that was just about the stupidest thing anybody could ever do. Embarrassingly stupid, but when I took the speed limiter off of her and she went 131 there were a few spectators who wanted to know what the hell I had in that car, that's too fast for that car.

          Rivalry, I'm not familiar with that.
          Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

            it is too monotone now.

            there isn't even a bop motor on ram air IV coming out of nowhere, or a 455 H.O. laughing at a 454.

            in high school my 301 pontiac barely kept up with my neighbors version of a 292...as my neighbors amx eagle with a 258 took the baja shortcut to get by both of us on the back road...
            or that time a guy put a 300 in a fox body to climb a hill in fourth gear at 1000 rpm on the steep grade outside penquis valley high school.

            curioisity needs to exist for rivalry.
            there is none.

            To me finding a billet filter for a 1996 SBC on unburnable accel wires is performance heading to 400k miles.
            Temporary is for sponsored fast talkers and companies that took a modern dig into several million in CNC equipment.

            no more finding the several different piston 327 that kept #7 cooler on the lopsided carb flow...
            Previously boxer3main
            the death rate and fairy tales cannot kill the nature left behind.

            Comment


            • #7

              Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

              Camshaft wars were big back in the day and competition pretty fierce
              Perhaps a sad indication about how much the world changed since the 1960s is when Vortech and ProCharger were sniping at each other in the late '90s advertising . . . . and it all ended up in court instead of being settled on the race track.

              Maybe now they would have just flamed it out with bots on Twitter and FB . . . .

              C5 Forced Induction/Nitrous - Old news: ATI vs. Vortech - Old but interesting.. ATI PROCHARGER FILES LAWSUIT AGAINST VORTECH For Immediate Release April 13, 1999 On April 13, 1999, in United States District Court in Kansas City, Accessible Technologies, Inc. (ATI), manufacturer of ProCharger supercharger systems,...

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

                In NASCAR the car you picked had a lot to do with rivalries. For a while there were tire rivalries. And of course no talk of "teamwork". "Better Racing" fosters "Fewer Rivalries". Along with near zero tech. NASCAR's biggest contribution lately is testing equipment like the spintron.
                My hobby is needing a hobby.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

                  Gate, I was trying to go find a video of the legendary Cale/Allison fist fight at Daytona. And I came across this. I had to watch the whole thing, it was an eye-opener for me. There can even actually be a rivalry between father and son, at least for quite a while. I never had any idea. This is cool, very cool. I apologize for derailing the thread, which is usually my specialty, and I've done it again.



                   
                  Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

                    Today do we have the 'tuner wars'?............seems like lots of competition out there in the tuning world, which is all greek to me
                    Deaf Bob likes this.
                    Thom

                    "The object is to keep your balls on the table and knock everybody else's off..."

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

                      If you think Don Schumacher Racing and John Force Racing aren't rivals - you are NOT paying attention.
                      Act your age, not your shoe size. - Prince

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

                        I never liked drama and still don't. One of the reasons I turned away from NASCAR-type racing was exactly this. Can't we all just get along, have fun, and see what our cars will do? There is a faster F/DT in the world than Mutt - the Tracer Racing Dakota. I met the guy at Bonneville - nice man. No rivalry on my part (and I don't think on his either) but his efforts DO spur me to wring more out of Mutt as I know there's more in there.

                        Dan
                        problem HERE IS. ALTHOUGH YOU ARE NOT WRONG. there is a problem.
                        The pool of people truly into racing. no matter what type. The ones that have a stop watch or 2-3-4-5 and are timing a drivers/teams lap times. watching what they do for adjustments in the pits. and now with the scanners, scanning what the crew chief and driver plan on changes/adjustments/etc.
                        or in drag racing the 60foot/ 8thmile et and speed and 1/4 mile et speed. or the lsr. what it run at mile 1-2-3-4-5-etc.
                        That pool is tiny.
                        RACING cost stupid money. and when you're at the top of the series chains it is even worse. That requires sponsors.
                        NASCAR understands that it is a balance of racing and ENTERTAINMENT. as they know most watching the t.v. don't have their laptop out ,and tracking their drivers/teams date/lap times and chatter over the radio.
                        they also know most in the stands are not either.
                        Like it or not. DALE SR. Rusty, The Alabama gang/etc understood this. and would race side by side, or pass each other back and forth. as they knew to put on a show. instead of just passing another car/team/driver and that be that. but come to any thing that earn them points. (leading a lap, leading the lap at mid point of race, leading the most lapes/etc) they were full steam again and out for blood. and at 30-50 to go the gloves came off and no more mr nice guy. and when they passed you, it was going to stick. no more showboating.

                        THAT IS WHAT MADE NASCAR GREAT. and why it got huge in the late80's till 2016.

                        The pool of people that enjoy motorsports and like a little drama is 10000 times bigger than the tiny pool that are what you'd call nerdy fans.

                        The 60/70/80/90's top pro drag racing knew having rivalries was good for the sport.


                        without the larger pool of motorsports fans. motorsports would already be dead. all forms of it. LSR would also go from lack of parts. that the wide world of motorsports has made on the shelf. it wasn't all that long ago. that this was not the case. and only those with a machine shop and the skills to make their own parts. played in the motorsports playground.

                        sure their be the lower classes/series. but they never be able to afford to keep the playgrounds open. be it a dragstrip/circle track or even the salt flats.
                        yes there are tracks without the big boys going there. but the sponsors keeping those tracks open are only in the sport because of the top big boys. in the first place without them. they don't invest in the motorsports and the tracks close up.

                        Nascars problem is last few years they tried to start a fight, pitting the younger drivers against the older ones. it backfired as the older guys, said screw this. see ya and retired.
                        nevermind the older ones that stayed stopped on the younger guys weekly.

                        Nascar also knew the fans need to be able to interact with the drivers. something they lost. today they wreck and go hid in their million dollar motorcoach instead of going out to their vendor trailer that is selling everything they can think of with their name and car # on it. They used too, and need to go back to that. many would spend most of Saturday at their merchandise rig and sign things.

                        Dragracing is in a bigger mess.
                        The top fuel classes have like 4 owners. for 9/10th of the field
                        PRo stock is dead.
                        The last real rivalry was Force vs al Hoffman. (may he r.i.p.)

                        It is dieing a slow death. because the NHRA only focuses on the prostock/top fuel/promod. ranks.
                        The general public can't connect with any of those. but they can connect with the bracket classes. or the sportman racers. and is why the street outlaws races at the tracks are huge. sure the cars are 100k+ . but they look like that 5k car down the road that needs paint. dominators dart. or chucks fox mustang, doc's 70 monty/etc. people can relate to them. even the fireball 2010 Camaro. 2010 v8 Camaros are under 10k now. people can relate to them and see themselves in on , at the line, waiting on the tree to fall.

                        LSR. is small potato's. that most will never see. other than youtube videos'.races are limited and a long drive, heck the east coast timing races no where near the east coast.

                        Best thing for nascar/circle track racing would be allowing Dale JR to start the series he wants to. a retro series. and keep it separate from the nascar branding. and/or allowing another promoter to start another series to compete against nascar. problem is nascar owns most of the tracks and no other series has a chance as long as they feel there is no need to open up the tracks to other competing series.
                        Down under has a series that use old classic cars. and they race hard and wreck unlike the classic car racing here that tip tow around for fear of a dent.
                        If I was king. the busch series. opps, infinity series. would be running 4 bangers. like the base Camaro/mustang/supra(well that one is an inline bmw sourced 6. but Toyota had 4 bangers they could use.
                        This make those cars. easier for the fans to connect to. as the turbo 4 Camaro/mustang are 25k cars. unlike the cup cars the gt500 and the zl1. and the Toyota that Toyota doesn't even offer. the stang and Camaro are 70-120k cars. the fans can not connect with that. as most can't afford them..
                        Even if they share nothing with the showroom car. other than the model name.
                        The fact is the fan hears, gt500 and knows it is a very pricey car. same with the ZL1.
                        if they see a Camaro that is if in label only the base 4 banger. they can see being able to afford one of those either new, or one that is a few years old.

                        The circl track cars of the 60/70/80/90's were nothing ike the showroom car either. no matter how much the older fans want to claim their were.
                        but the fan could walk into the dealership and buy a base ford t bird or a base olds cutlass/regal/monty/g/p or whatever as they were affordable cars.

                        Last edited by JamesMayberryIII; February 23rd, 2019, 09:51 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

                          What rags me out is dominations are good for the sports IF there are several combinations at play. Glidden and Prudhomme were GREAT for the sport because others using different hardware were working their asses off to get to them and sometimes DID. KB racing versus a field of Camaros with bought engine packages, not so much. All these rules to get "parity" and "close racing" are killing any REAL interest in the sports. I just read a Facebook post from Keith Haney saying he will sit out any more RvW races until they put more weight on turbo and blower cars. Waaaaaa! Some OTHER nitrous racer will build and tune harder and sooner or later win a big one and THEY will be a hero and Haney a schmuck.
                          My hobby is needing a hobby.

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

                            What rags me out is dominations are good for the sports IF there are several combinations at play. Glidden and Prudhomme were GREAT for the sport because others using different hardware were working their asses off to get to them and sometimes DID. KB racing versus a field of Camaros with bought engine packages, not so much. All these rules to get "parity" and "close racing" are killing any REAL interest in the sports. I just read a Facebook post from Keith Haney saying he will sit out any more RvW races until they put more weight on turbo and blower cars. Waaaaaa! Some OTHER nitrous racer will build and tune harder and sooner or later win a big one and THEY will be a hero and Haney a schmuck.
                            I'm sure if you offer to foot the bill to travel to races knowing the rules are stacked against you, he'll not sit out, and race.
                            It is easy for those that are not paying the bills to comment on waaaaaaaaaaaaaa. and such. not so easy when you have to fund it.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Are Racing Rivalries Still Possible?

                              The man OWNS car dealerships and half a dragstrip. He brags he has the fastest s**t out there. He can pay for as much R&D as ANYONE. Too many rules, not enough R&D. The rules aren't stacked against him, they just aren't stacked in his favor. Reminds me of the time Rickie Smith complained about weight breaks to a top end interviewer right after he set quick time of the event losing on a holeshot. If the fastest way to get a doorslammer is with turbos or a blower, why not do that and KEEP them the fastest doorslammers? The whole class needs to be slowed to the weakest combination? Crap, if it was 1969 we'd still have Funny Cars running injectors and gasoline and the blown fuel ones would weigh 5,000 lb.!
                              Last edited by RockJustRock; February 23rd, 2019, 12:16 PM.
                              My hobby is needing a hobby.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X