Buick Olds Pontiac 455

[ratpatrol66]

Years ago I drove a 69 Olds 98 with a 455. It had a 12 bolt with a limited slip tag hanging of the rear. Me and a friend laughed at how much of an old man the car was and it was so quite. We stopped and did a burnout and were blown away. That thing light the tires up and went into high speed wheel spin. It pulled damn good for a big car and left a wake around the corners. A few years later I bought a 70 Buick Electra 225 with a 370hp 455. That engine was so good it ended up in my 69 Skylark, 69 GTO, 75 Skylark and I sold it as a strong runner. I will be driving a big inch Pontiac soon as I have a stroked 428 going into my GTO.

[pontiacpower]

Big Block Buicks were amazing engines but they needed oiling modifications to live at higher RPM. I don't know if this is still the best fix but back in the day folks would drive copper tubing down the main oil galley and send less oil to the top end so that more oil stayed in the bottom end. BBB cylinder heads flowed among the best (except for the hemi, of course) and the small (5/5" hex) spark plugs were originally designed for the BBB heads. Once the engineers laid out the intake and exhaust ports there simply wasn't enough room for the old-fashioned 13/16" plug bases. BTW - I the mid-'60s - early '70's I worked at the Buick dealer about 5 miles from the GMPG in Milford MI and a number of our customers were engineering staff from GMPG. They would pump us mechanics for situations we were finding in service and in exchange drop tidbits of engineering info on us in return.

One can make a point that the Olds main journals are simply too large. At high RPM they tend to throw oil off the journal because the surface velocity of the oil on the main journal is past optimum. There are, of course, fixes for this which, I hear, work well.

If we can get Todd to weigh in he has literally forgotten more about Pontiacs than I'll ever know. He's REALLY sharp on these.

Dan

Small world. I live in howell mi. About 20 minutes west of Milford and the gmpg.
As far as big journals go..... wouldn’t this be why you build a large journal engine to produce power at low rpm?
I’m not familiar with the small plugs but once I finish my Pontiac build I’d really like to get my hands on an olds or Buick motor to rebuild. Nothing crazy in mind just a good running healthy motor. 500 ft lbs is what stock 455s we’re putting out so wit some gearing and a few small mods I’m sure the smaller cube bo engines can run with the best of them. I find this topic very interesting. A lot of the enginuity from the bop division changed the game. It’s a shame they all quit making engines. A little variety never hurt nobody

[pontiacpower]

Years ago I drove a 69 Olds 98 with a 455. It had a 12 bolt with a limited slip tag hanging of the rear. Me and a friend laughed at how much of an old man the car was and it was so quite. We stopped and did a burnout and were blown away. That thing light the tires up and went into high speed wheel spin. It pulled damn good for a big car and left a wake around the corners. A few years later I bought a 70 Buick Electra 225 with a 370hp 455. That engine was so good it ended up in my 69 Skylark, 69 GTO, 75 Skylark and I sold it as a strong runner. I will be driving a big inch Pontiac soon as I have a stroked 428 going into my GTO.

I have never had the pleasure of driving any classic powered cars except the 350p in my 71 lemans. But I too will soon be running around town in a stroker 400(461) Pontiac torque monster.

[DanStokes]

Just an FYI - At least during my time working at GMPG (early '70s) there never was a BOP Division. Each Division (Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Cadillac, Harrison Radiator, Fisher Body, AC Delco, Hydramatic etc.) each had their own facility at the Grounds and did much of their own designs, hence the 4 different 350 engines at one time. There WERE some common designs such as transmissions and basic body structure (like the "A" body, for example) but the translation of these designs into each car line was performed by that Division and so each car had it's own feel and character. When GM shut down the individual shops and made everything "GM" it was the end of Pontiac and Olds (though that took a while) - they were simply rebadged Chevys (someone is going to speak up and say "but Pontiac had superior ashtrays" or some such but basically......). I'm not sure how Buick survived except I guess GM is making money on up-content Chevys with Buick badges.

BTW - I worked (off and on) for several years at Feigley Motor Sales both in the old downtown shop and in the "new" shop at the end on South Milford Road where it crosses GM Road. Sadly, the "new" shop was torn down to make way for a strip mall that now sits in that spot. The new shop was one of nicest car service facilities I ever worked in - Cloyd Feigley, the owner and a fine mechanic in his own right, had carefully planned it so everything was readily at hand, we had enough hoists (2 post Lincolns) great cross-ventilation, good light, etc. Evidently, time marches on.

Dan

[oletrux4evr]

This is a great thread. Some of you know our Vista Cruiser sports a Pontiac 400, which frankly, doesn't produce near enough power for a car that large.........plan on a 455 swap sometime down the road. Keep talkin', I'm learnin' a lot!!

[antmnte]

All really interesting. My good friend raced a a stroked 455 Buick in his GS but it all just got too expensive. That car made unbelievable torque.

[pontiacpower]

I’m loving this discussion so far.
i knew that the bop divisions worked engine designs up on their own all the while using the same transmissions. I have heard that the Pontiacs and olds cars could get a hurst shifter which helps a great deal so I’m told. I’m curious why the bop divisions design their own engines but run the same transmissions and rear ends though

[Deaf Bob]

real numbers, 13-15 city, 20 highway... 455 Buick, intake, cam, headers, Skylark 3.73 rear gears (which was waaayyyyy too high, but made for fun stoplight wars.) The biggest issue about checking mpg was it sloshed out the fill neck

Pretty much what the kid gets with his 65..

[65RHDEER]

How did the Buick "Nailhead" get that name?

In Australia the first 6 cylinders fitted to Holdens were painted grey, they are known as a "grey motor". The next generation were painted red, known as the "red motor" and the update of that was painted blue, yes "blue motor"! Then the last of them that were fuel injected were painted black, they ended in 85 as we stopped leaded fuel in 85 and then Holden went to the Nissan motor for one model and then the Buick 3.8L V6.

Hagerty are reconditioning a Nailhead at the moment, it's not all going to plan...

[oletrux4evr]

Bummer.

[DanStokes]

How did the Buick "Nailhead" get that name?

Good question. The real answer has to do with the combustion chamber shape. Buick wanted more or less a hemi chamber but wanted to avoid the rocker arm issues found in the early (and later) Chrysler-built hemis. I've heard that Buick was interested in the rocker arm issue both due to the monkey motion from the long exhaust rockers and also the production expense - 'tain't cheap to do that. So they designed the chamber, worked out a valve train arrangement, and found out that they needed long valve stems but that there was only room for relatively small valve heads. The valves looked like - (wait for it......) NAILS!

BTW, in my Buick days we often heard them referred to as "Nailvalve" engines though that name has fallen by the wayside.

The more or less hemi head with relatively small valves yielded an engine with great smoothness and tons of torque but with little potential for high levels of either HP or fuel economy leading to the development of the BBB engines. There is no commonality between the Nailhead and the BBB.

Dan

[squirrel]

The chamber looks like a hemi, but with both valves on the same side! yeah, the valves are small.

[DanStokes]

The chamber looks like a hemi, but with both valves on the same side! yeah, the valves are small.

Thanks Jim! I'm getting over a cold and therefore didn't venture out to the shop to take a pic of my old Nailhead. If 65RHDEER is interested I can take a shot of the piston crown of mine but it looks like a regular piston with a pup tent on top. Remember that the valve covers on a Nailhead sit straight up and down? If you look at the head shot you can figure out that the VC sits directly over those valves and therefor is pretty much parallel to the ground (the valves are on the valley side of the engine).

You can get an idea of where they were going but with the BBB they went in a different direction and worked to maximize a more conventional chamber (by today's standards) with really good ports and MUCH bigger valves.

Dan

[DanStokes]

BTW - If someone wants to come and get my 322 Nailhead (it's from a '56) I can make a heck of a deal on it. It has the heads off and I've been soaking the bores for years so it might spin over now - I haven't tried in several years but I do squirt it with whatever I have in the shop at the time (Kroil, etc.) when I walk past it and think of it. If you don't smoke we can even put you up for an overnight. Think about it!

Dan

[pontiacpower]

Great info on the Buick’s gents. Spill it all! I never even knew that Chrysler and Buick had a rivalry in the horsepower wars. I’m beginning to think a Buick or olds would be a fun powerplant to play with. Once I get done with my Lemans I wouldn’t mind taking on another project. I’m soft for the injun but I like taking the path less traveled so the chevy/ford option is out. I’ll be going to Florida soon so I’ll be passing through North Carolina. A nailhead might look good in my garage! Keep talking gentleman. I want to learn some more about the Buick’s. I’ve actually printed out some of Todd’s (thumpin455) conversation to blueprint the 400 stroker idea because the guy is the chief when it comes to Pontiacs. I might do that with this convo too.