Lunch Money Lightning - Late model 460

[Beagle]

I've got an F150 worth about 3500.00 hypothetically, and thinking about the 5k challenge. That leaves a budget of roughly 1500.00 and two engine choices for the "hypothetical" toy street truck. Either needs to be gone through although they probably don't need an overbore. It still needs to be able to pull 6000 pounds.

8.8:1 CR 351 Windsor
64cc GT40 heads (not the P head)
GT40 EFI intake
Flat tappet boat cam

7.whatever:1 CR BBF 460
96cc D3VE heads
battleship anchor 4bbl manifold and fuel leak device (Motorcraft carb)
13 lobe cam

Your goal is over 400 hp and every foot pound of torque you can get. Which one do you build, what parts do you use, and why?

[fatguyzinc]

Your goal is over 400 hp and every foot pound of torque you can get. Which one do you build, what parts do you use, and why?

hands down the 460--though i dont know bout $1500....
a stock replacement 1969 lincoln piston set was 11-1,
even with the "3" heads that gets you at 10.5-1 or
maybe 9.5-1 at the least if you got the 'tall deck' block.
ive seen em as low as $200/set.

a weiand stealth intake, a cam/lifter set,
(something like this-- https://www.summitracing.com/parts/isk-311281/make/ford )
an edelbrock 800 eps carb, rocker conversion kits
(https://www.summitracing.com/parts/isk-311281/make/ford ,
you need 8...) roller rockers ( https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...44-1/make/ford ,
you need 16 of these...)

a 'normal' rings bearings gasket overhaul kit and a good
hv oilpump, a couple cans of hi temp white for primer
so we can paint the block pink, 3 cans of dayglo pink,
and a set of headers to fit the truck and a 2000 stall.

dont forget a big @ss trans cooler and a shift kit.

carefull shopping should get you real close to the $1500,
maybe $2000 at the outside depending on shipping parts.
and i see 500+ftlb from 2000-5500rpm+ and 400+hp easily
out of this theoretic combo, with daily driver reliability.

the only way youll get that kind of power (and not as wide a powerband
anyway) out of the 351 is a supercharger or turbo.

even stock and smogged a 460 will pull 6000lbs
a billion times better than a 351.


note-- screw the $1500 budget and buy DOVE heads, that also eliminates the
need for conversion kits and gives +80-100hp alone......

[cstmwgn]

Your goal is over 400 hp and every foot pound of torque you can get.

So pull a plug wire off the 385 and be done with it!

[squirrel]

replace only whatever on the 460 is worn out enough that it won't work, or last another XX,000 miles (that's how long you intend to drive it as is). Stock parts. If the carb doesn't work, make an adapter to put something that does work on it (assuming it has that funky partial spread bore intake).

Save the rest of the 1500 for gas...you're gonna need it

[SuperBuickGuy]

for a computer guy, your fear of a 5.0 DOHC motor is remarkable. In a pickup - you have miles of room for the OHC motor, then you'll be looking at 650 hp... don't fear technology, technology is here to help you. The future is now!

while it may seem odd I'm promoting a Ford motor, I think OHC motors are great - where they fit... Coyote motor in a pickup, BBR will start saying bad things about you... https://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-MUSTAN...0AAOSwOrpbx4KT

and about the 5k challenge.... that's 5k you put into it. what you paid for the vehicle really isn't the point, the point is to build something really cool without destroying bank account.

[Russell]

Do you already have a lighting intake? Those things fetch stupid money. I have never had either so I am no help. The 351 should be good enough. Is the eec mass air? Are you going to have to have it turned? I assume bbf makes a ton of torque. I also decided that I don't care for carbs. The Holley EFI stuff is nice.

This is BS so let's spend Beagle's money. Godzilla Crate engine is only 8k!

Real answer which one gets you doing burn outs sooner?

[Beagle]

Russell, this hypothetical truck is a 95 Lightning that has been sitting neglected for many years. Both tanks need new fuel pumps and the miles have not been super kind to the 351. I'm toying with the idea of transplanting the 460 from the Lincoln because it will make me get that car out of the dog run and one less eyesore around here. I liked it with a 351 and I won't be getting rid of any of the original stuff so it can be put back stock if somebody wants to, but the idea of a little bit lumpy cam carb'd 460 / c6 appeals to my lunch money budget. I'm not gonna worry about the fuel economy, it won't get driven much. I have an attachment to the damn truck and can't get rid of it. It's emissions check free as of this year.

I'm toying with the idea of extreme budget which is funny because there aren't really any cheap 460 parts but I wouldn't need many parts. Turbo the 351 makes the most sense but isn't exactly simple to tune, those trucks are speed density. The learning curve on a standalone EFI is more than I want right at the moment.

392 with forged 302 pistons, comes out around 11:1 with decent heads, 236/248 roller cam, and a Performer RPM for a 351. Heads would be a budget breaker and I'm not wanting to put a die grinder on the original parts.

460 probably needs to be bored. 2cc flat tops will bring it up to 9.5:1 plus or minus a couple tenths for my bad math or deck height. I think I'm looking for an excuse to port the heads. Surprisingly, it would have the lope I want to hear with a 110* LSA, and the cam could still be reasonable. A 214/224 would probably work pretty well with that CR. I think I can bring in the 460 for 1500.00 all in and have a stump puller.

All of this excercise is a bench build right now. The obvious real world smart thing is to make it run and leave it alone but it's a little bit embarrassing that it won't keep up with anything modern. Like a Harley, it should at least be loud and rude if it's gonna be that slow.

[squirrel]

If it won't get driven much, it won't need to be bored (assuming it's just worn, not rusty inside). New rings work with quite a bit of wear and taper in the hole, they just don't last very long from all the moving around.

[cstmwgn]

So, I know you mentioned it somewhere but I am either lazy or incompetent (probably both) as I can't find it. Assuming it is the original engine in the Lincoln then it most likely is a short bore (<d9) block.

If you take Squirrels approach, a straight up timing chain would be worthwhile

IF it needs to be bored then screw the budget and go with an Eagle/Scat rotating assembly. The machine work costs should be less as you won't need to recondition/upgrade the rods or polish the crank. With the smaller arm (4.3) you should be able to get reasonable durability on the piston skirts and make a ton of power/torque. I am pretty sure BBR ran the 4.5 crank in an early block in his ranger and didn't have any issues but I am not sure how many miles he put on it.

Do your D3s have hard seats in them? I am not sure when Ford went to the harder seats. If you have to put seats in those heads, then you should put the bigger valves in it while your at it, machine the guides and upgrade to screw-in studs - slippery slope. You might be able to find some cheap A429 heads out there.

Of course, if you make it too stout, then you have issues with forward bite to solve.

[squirrel]

pretty sure 1973 heads would be set up for running unleaded....although no telling what shape they're in now. good point about worrying about seats in something that will tow

[Beagle]

All good thoughts! Squirrel picked up on the limited use part, that's the crux of this biscuit... guess I'll have to get this 460 mill out of it's jail and have a look at it. This could be a moot point after 30 something years of not turning, it might be one rusted solid piece.

I've never really seen a sunken valve the way everyone describes it.. when the car got parked, regular leaded gas was still available (and used). I don't think it will have enough cam to justify screw in studs, it will be right at the edge though.

[squirrel]

I've seen a few sunk exhaust valves, usually on engines that had to work hard. Car makers knew unleaded was coming in the early 70s, and started induction hardening seats on all engines around then. The hardening usually works fine, for a long time. However, it's not very thick, and can be damaged by overheating, or grinding the seats too much on a valve job.

[Deaf Bob]

I derbied a lincoln just like that.. Had a rare for me, 7 runs in it.. Stock 74 460 with a 429 distributor, holley carb (was already on it). Bad part was the trans had to be gone thru every 2 runs.. 460 had the torque to make my heavy caged car FLY..

[cstmwgn]

... but the idea of a little bit lumpy cam carb'd 460 / c6 appeals to my lunch money budget. I'm not gonna worry about the fuel economy, it won't get driven much. I have an attachment to the damn truck and can't get rid of it. It's emissions check free as of this year.

... 9.5:1 plus or minus a couple tenths for my bad math or deck height ... Surprisingly, it would have the lope I want to hear with a 110* LSA, and the cam could still be reasonable. A 214/224 would probably work pretty well with that CR.

... Like a Harley, it should at least be loud and rude if it's gonna be that slow.

Perhaps you should check to see if you need to get your meds adjusted
as I don't believe a 9.5 - 1 460 will be rude or lumpy with that little weak suck cam. The old motor I had in my F250 was 9.7 iron headed 468 with a 236 @ .050 mechanical flat tappet. It had a little lope to it but even when it needed a tune up it didn't sound rude (or rowdy).

[Beagle]

Perhaps you should check to see if you need to get your meds adjusted
as I don't believe a 9.5 - 1 460 will be rude or lumpy with that little weak suck cam. The old motor I had in my F250 was 9.7 iron headed 468 with a 236 @ .050 mechanical flat tappet. It had a little lope to it but even when it needed a tune up it didn't sound rude (or rowdy).

LOL! Lemme get through the "stage 1" before you bust my bubble? It won't sound computer controlled..