Lunch Money Lightning - Late model 460

[Russell]

Russell, this hypothetical truck is a 95 Lightning that has been sitting neglected for many years. Both tanks need new fuel pumps and the miles have not been super kind to the 351. I'm toying with the idea of transplanting the 460 from the Lincoln because it will make me get that car out of the dog run and one less eyesore around here. I liked it with a 351 and I won't be getting rid of any of the original stuff so it can be put back stock if somebody wants to, but the idea of a little bit lumpy cam carb'd 460 / c6 appeals to my lunch money budget. I'm not gonna worry about the fuel economy, it won't get driven much. I have an attachment to the damn truck and can't get rid of it. It's emissions check free as of this year.
I'm toying with the idea of extreme budget which is funny because there aren't really any cheap 460 parts but I wouldn't need many parts. Turbo the 351 makes the most sense but isn't exactly simple to tune, those trucks are speed density. The learning curve on a standalone EFI is more than I want right at the moment.

392 with forged 302 pistons, comes out around 11:1 with decent heads, 236/248 roller cam, and a Performer RPM for a 351. Heads would be a budget breaker and I'm not wanting to put a die grinder on the original parts.
460 probably needs to be bored. 2cc flat tops will bring it up to 9.5:1 plus or minus a couple tenths for my bad math or deck height. I think I'm looking for an excuse to port the heads. Surprisingly, it would have the lope I want to hear with a 110* LSA, and the cam could still be reasonable. A 214/224 would probably work pretty well with that CR. I think I can bring in the 460 for 1500.00 all in and have a stump puller.

All of this excercise is a bench build right now. The obvious real world smart thing is to make it run and leave it alone but it's a little bit embarrassing that it won't keep up with anything modern. Like a Harley, it should at least be loud and rude if it's gonna be that slow.

I am sure the lighting guys can tell you what the computer will tolerate. Will a cam only lighting give you the bump you are looking for. Adding a turbo would give you the power. But you might need to increase the budget.

The 460 running in the Lincoln? Before attempting the swap.

If you can tune a carb then tuning a Holley Terminator X is a cake walk.

[BBR]

Can of worms Beagle!


Boost the 351: The speed density efi in the 351 does not play well with boost. The MAP sensors only deal with vacuum, not positive pressure so the EEC is not set up to provide positive pressure fueling. The only real workaround that I know of is to use an FMU or piggyback a stand alone efi system.

Carb the 351: The E4OD trans is computer controlled so you are stuck trying to somehow make it work (Baumann controller) or swap to a small block C6, but then you lose overdrive.

Upgrade the EFI 351: Heads, heads, heads. IIRC those things have E7 heads on them and they suuuck on a 302. So anything you do to it is going to hit the E7 gate keeper.

Swap to a carb'd 460: Tempting option. Stock heads are decent enough to make good power. I'd put a Holley 650 DP (I hate vacuum secondary carbs) and not be afraid of a cam in the 230+ duration @50. Do what you can to get the CR up to a decent level, thin head gaskets, different pistons, etc. Stock iron intakes are actually pretty decent, but are so heavy it would take 25 Antifa dudes just to pick it up. Throw a one wire HEI distributor in it BUT check the total advance and adjust accordingly. The one I had threw a ridiculous amount of mechanical advance, so I just locked it out on the Mustang. Again, you will have to swap in a C6 and lose OD or find a BB E4OD and use a Baumann controller.

Swap to a later model EFI 460/E4OD: This is not on your list, but it gets my vote. Darn near plug and play and nets you BB power in a 1/2 ton truck and you retain OD and all that good stuff. Swap the cam, advance the timing, add some headers and go do burnouts until it barfs coolant. I see these pop up on FB Marketplace or Craigslist for cheap. There is not much headroom for major performance upgrades without a complete top end swap, but that's not the point of this scenario anyway.

[Beagle]

Missus Beagle used to like you BBR! The EFI one doesn't get the stinkin lincoln out of my yard, but yes, just saw one complete in Lubbock for cheap (1996 for 350). That makes total sense compared to 350.00 for an RPM Air Gap. The Lightning came with an E4OD so it would be pretty much the same/same for a late model 460 and it's E4OD.

Bench building ...

The F3 (late EFI) pistons are about .030 taller compression height than the D3 pistons and cheaper than having the block decked and manifold cut. I wonder how bad it would jack up the balance? Maybe weigh them all and see if I could get them close. They are about 20.00 per hole and have a whole let less dish to boot. 9:1 with baby cam would have to be better than 7.5:1 with 13 lobes. lol.

[squirrel]

it'll ping when you're pulling a load....

[BBR]

Balance is a non-issue for this application. Now if you were turning 7500-8000, ok, let's check it. But not for this stuff.

That one is Lubbock is for sale by a friend of mine. lol BIG Ford family. They have really really really cool Ford stuff.

Oh and you prob know but a 351 E4OD won't fit a 460. SB bell pattern vs. BB bell pattern.

[Beagle]

Balance is a non-issue for this application. Now if you were turning 7500-8000, ok, let's check it. But not for this stuff.

That one is Lubbock is for sale by a friend of mine. lol BIG Ford family. They have really really really cool Ford stuff.

Oh and you prob know but a 351 E4OD won't fit a 460. SB bell pattern vs. BB bell pattern.

I hope he sells it quick, it looked clean. Bellhousing, roger that, I was thinking hooking it up would be about the same. Good to know on the balance.

Squirrel, I was thinking getting the quench down around or under .050 might help keep it from pinging? As far as towing, I'm thinking car trailer with a whatever I wanted to drag home this time, or trailering a car out to Denton or Ennis (about 30-45 miles). There's room for compromise with the truck. Towing isn't something it absolutely has to do but I'd prefer it if it would without fussing. Vanity I guess.

[squirrel]

I just wanted to remind you that building a tow vehicle isn't the same as building a normal hot rod....btdt

[Beagle]

Let's not let good logic and experience get in the way of this impending disaster!




Seriously though, Good call Squirrel, I appreciate it. Thank you, all, in fact! There's a plan in all of this:

0.1 Make plans
1. Extraction
2. Make it Run
3. Make it Run in the truck
4. Make it run better within budget
5. Stroke, inject, cam, and modern head the thing or edit old posts so it makes target goals. :| grin.

(the only absolute must have is to harvest and recycle the Lincoln, and gain a running truck)

Step 1 is in progress, spending a few minutes every day getting closer to 2. It may take forever but it's a few minutes closer every day... better than none closer I reckon.

[BBR]

My saying after piddling in the shop for 30-45 minutes every day is: "I didn't do much, but I did more than nothing".

[BBR]

Dang it Beagle! Now I have been looking around for a cat to jam one of my 460's into!!

[Beagle]

Dang it Beagle! Now I have been looking around for a cat to jam one of my 460's into!!

A Cougar? You know, you just don't see many 460 Fox Cougars...

For a lot of folks on here, CHI means cam / head / intake. For me, I think it means Couldn't Help It.

Progress is glacial but still happening. I'm close to the point of either needing a tow truck to safely get that thing out or come up with some brilliantly elaborate and dangerous plan that involves more money than a tow truck and ends up with... a tow truck.

[Beagle]

Lightbulb ... I've been sweating how to anchor a winch to drag this thing up an incline. The incline is between 10 and 15 degrees I think, looks about like a 3/12 roof. I had some thoughts around earth anchors but frankly, I'm leary. The car is around 5000 give or take, it's titled at 5500 pounds. I wouldn't be surprised if the brakes were rusted solid. Then it hit me. We have a ratty 1977 Shasta 18' trailer. It's about 5000 pounds too, or felt like it when I pulled it anyway. The car trailer pulls easier with a truck on top of it. Anyway, here's the thought.

Double axle, at least 4k heavy, never going anywhere again as a travel trailer (lost never transferred title) turned sideways, attach the winch to it on the frame between the axles. That should make a good anchor... right?

Somebody talk me down.

[fatguyzinc]

Lightbulb ... I've been sweating how to anchor a winch to drag this thing up an incline. The incline is between 10 and 15 degrees I think, looks about like a 3/12 roof. I had some thoughts around earth anchors but frankly, I'm leary. The car is around 5000 give or take, it's titled at 5500 pounds. I wouldn't be surprised if the brakes were rusted solid. Then it hit me. We have a ratty 1977 Shasta 18' trailer. It's about 5000 pounds too, or felt like it when I pulled it anyway. The car trailer pulls easier with a truck on top of it. Anyway, here's the thought.

Double axle, at least 4k heavy, never going anywhere again as a travel trailer (lost never transferred title) turned sideways, attach the winch to it on the frame between the axles. That should make a good anchor... right?

Somebody talk me down.

take the tires off so it digs into the ground, and land anchor
or chain to a big tree as welll.

[STINEY]

Double axle at least 4k heavy travel trailer turned sideways, attach the winch to it on the frame between the axles. That should make a good anchor... right?

Somebody talk me down.

Hmmm. This spring I drug a Beetle with all 4 locked up out of a derelict garage in Cleveland. My older friend whose aunt it was who owned the Bug wanted to try his winch - but he also wanted to pats his truck sideways and pull from the side of the front as his theory was it is heavier on the front and sideways would dig in better.

Well, long story short, it didn’t dig. At all. It slid so easy....and the Bug which was sitting on 2” of slime didn’t budge a bit. He gave up after the truck slid sideways 3’.

We then went with my idea and pulled with the truck under power in reverse with a 60’ chain threaded thru the landscaping plant growth. You know, truck on one side, garage on the other. Slid right out.

My thoughts are that the truck tread is designed for traction in a straight line, not sideways.

How this translates to old heavy Fords I have no idea, but make it easy to get started and use a shovel to dig ramps for all four tires to roll from their current level to the current ground level. 5e hardest part of moving old cars is getting the, out of their holes, and ramps make it so much easier.


good luck.

[Beagle]

it's on concrete, so huge win there. If it were in dirt, this wouldn't be a problem. The tow truck would have already been here. I'm trying to keep the winch/trailer and truck out of the yard. I spent all year trying to get grass to grow for the first time in decades. Grass sod for the potentially impacted area costs more than tow trucks. I should stop being stupid about this... better things to think about. If you sign the check really fast, it doesn't hurt as much. I've still got a couple of days of cleanup before having to make up my mind. I'm not sure if this progress glacier is moving or melting. lol.