Lunch Money Lightning - Late model 460

[Beagle]

DUDE, you didn't tell me he had a Unicorn!!! (Real deal Boss 429 Mustang). It probably needs a bath after I slobbered all over it. Pat is a good guy, has a garage full of Ford greatness. The '57 with a 312 Y block / Paxton (McCulloch) / four gear was pretty outstanding too. I interrupted his work day, so I didn't stay long... also had that long drive home. Now I wish I had gone this weekend so I could look at all that greatness more. I would love to be the neighbor kid just waiting for the garage door to open so I could go stare and be a royal pest.

736 miles and 11 hours of driving later.. it's got a new home.

[RockJustRock]

Guess he should have said really a few MORE times.

[Beagle]

Real 427 FE, extra shotgun hemi in the corner.... '57 Ranchero, I didn't get to look and see if it had three pedals. A real freaking paint booth in the shop... 60's Dart go kart... I couldn't tell, but it looked like a '29 Ford pickup hiding in there... early 60's (like unibody but I didn't look close), another Mach 1... REALLY doesn't cover it. Clearly, I was in awe.

Back in my mere mortal world, it's time for E4od hunting I guess. Being that guy, I've got a tremec 3550 and Lakewood scattershield with SBF and 335/385 holes in it hiding under a table. Wonder how long it would last...

[BBR]

Haha I told you they have cooool Ford stuff! His little brother Dan still lives here (and his oldest son, are some of my local car buddies) and has a 427 Fairlane (3 pedal) and a 69 Mustang (3 pedal), etc. Dan (2 years younger than me) had the Fairlane in high school, Pat (one year older than me) had a killer Torino, and their sister (my age) had a beautiful 67 Cougar.

Pat had the Boss and the Mach 1 up here to race in the nostalgia super stock class at Funny Car Chaos and broke the drive shaft in the Boss on the first pass.

Dan has a Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCt...I0fPs9ar6MuxCw

[Beagle]

Excellent, thanks for the link. Dan saves me from not taking pictures! I was having drool problems already, speaking was an issue.. forget taking pictures. It was almost embarrassing. I guess Pat has seen that response before. He opened the hood on the Boss before I got it under control enough to ask if it was real.

[Beagle]

Probably as good a time as any to make a project car thread.

[fatguyzinc]

NO on the E4OD, its a crepe trans. C6 all the way, or if its 2wd an old top loader.
need o/d? take a different car on that particular trip. dont compromise strength
and reliability for convenience, i say............

and stick with the older carbed 460. power and reliability wise youll
be happy you did.

[Beagle]

Too late! I'm already stoked about all the late model improvements. That, and it's already in the bed of my truck.

E4OD is pretty much a C6 with an OD... never had a problem with the several I've owned. I'm looking for a very late model one anyway, all the revisions I can get.

After hours of looking for numbers on the stock heads (F3TE), un-ported they will make the goals I set.... 256cfm intake @ .500 is enough for 400 hp. The exhausts I cannot find numbers on unported. I'm curious about that, I "heard" somewhere close to 180 but I haven't seen any real tests to say so. 180 cfm out of them is plenty for what I'm asking it to do. The lower EFI manifold needs to be ported to get there.. it's basically a dual plane with an elbow on it.

I have 39 pound injectors, which would be perfect but need a tuner. I'm reading that mild cams will go 400 hp with a stock computer, which would be ideal. The stock injectors are 24# but you have to crank the fuel pressure to get there, they won't do it at 40psi. I'm not sure what a yard would ask for a 460 computer, can't be much. I may not even need one, haven't studied that enough. If they are, there are carb adapters for the lower from Price, who also offers adapters to put the old school manifolds on the EFI heads. I'm not sure what the adapters would do to the distributor options, but it doesn't really matter. I own single cut burrs.. the stock intake, ported, according to Scotty J, is just a little bit better than a Performer in flow. I trust his work.

I looked the other day and have an old Wolverine cam, new in box (WEAK SUCK! Lol.) I don't have a cam card but it's advertised 280/290 which is probably the same 214/[email protected] that everyone offered at one point. Elgin probably still sells it. I'd bet a 112 LSA. It will be too much for the stock computer, I may still have to buy a cam. I'm finding junk all over the house from my last failed 460 attempt. I actually have late model headers in the garage that are equally wimpy but are correct for the motor/frame. 10 years ago impulse buy, guess I've been thinking about this for a while. Haha.

Garage purge 2020, happening now. Damn impulse buys. lol. (I wouldn't have missed that trip!)

-edit- Russell, thanks buddy. Backup plan: there is a T6 flanged ebay turbo in the house somewhere. I think getting it to run would be a good first stop. This one even has the right engine mounts!

[cstmwgn]

...I looked the other day and have an old Wolverine cam, new in box (WEAK SUCK! Lol.) I don't have a cam card but it's advertised 280/290 which is probably the same 214/[email protected] that everyone offered at one point. Elgin probably still sells it. I'd bet a 112 LSA...

I didn't see anything in Elgin's catalog but I did find one in Lunati's catalog that matches those specs.
IF I was building an irrigation pump, that certainly would be a good choice!

On a slightly different topic, what are the improvements?
I know that the D9+ blocks had a slightly longer bore (~3/16").
I know that on some of the earlier engines they had a broach cut on the rod's big end that would fail if you built enough power but given the cam you are talking about - that will never happen!

[Beagle]

I'm easily amused. It only has to be faster than the 2.7 liter I'm comparing it with... on it's best day with the GT40'd 351, it was not.

The improvements I see for this v. the 1974 model are rods, hyper-eutectic pistons, modern ring package, better squish, more compression, arguably better heads (much better exhaust stock), more potential in the stock intake at no cost (well, the carbide burrs and grinder I already have and am intimate with) and much less weight (intake weight ... BBR is right. It takes an Antifa Army to lift it.) No concerns over hardened valve seats.

More subtle stuff is the serpentine drive , better alternator, compatible AC compressor, everything is in the right spot to fall in to place.

It was EFI so pretty much guaranteed better bore condition for the same mileage. I'll find out how close it is to plug and play but that would be a big win. 4.10's without an overdrive is a bit much for an irrigation motor... if the stock ECU will handle 400hp, it would make for a happy starting place. I'm betting it will be faster than the regular cab shortbed 3.73 geared 2.7 for less than 1500 bucks at that level.

[cstmwgn]

Are you going to start a build thread on this project? I would be interested in following it as I need to decide what level build I am going to put back in the truck. I am also contemplating something a little bit more domesticated for the wagon as maintenance on it on the road has its drawbacks.

[Beagle]

As soon as there is something worth taking pictures of. I bought a new horse for the cart and I don't have room for either one of them in the stable!

[Beagle]

May have found a 460 version E4OD from a '93 F250 for not much coin (300). I'm going to look at it tomorrow, to the other end of Texas... God willing and the creek don't rise. Planning on a rebuild, should be fun. I've always wanted to work on a tranmishun!

[Thumpin455]

and about the 5k challenge.... that's 5k you put into it. what you paid for the vehicle really isn't the point, the point is to build something really cool without destroying bank account.

The initial intent of it was how fast for a total of $5k, not throwing $5k worth of parts at a Hellcat or Demon. However since its a truck, the low buck mantra works great. A DOHC 5.0 is gonna break the budget whatever way you go.

Me, well I would do a 460 for sure. Been thinking about stuffing one in the 71 Mustang if I can ever get back to building the damn thing. Summit has a reman 460 short block for $1500, a set of heads for $2k, and a grand for the rest of it, juice cam, headers, etc.. and now the post Mustang is a fun as hell beastie for some lucky sot who wants to buy it. Sure the Mustang would be way over the $5k thing regardless, but that isn't a consideration for it.

[Beagle]

A real 5000.00 budget would be a treat (HEADS, cam, intake), but that's not what I'm after. To be completely transparent, the truck is worth more right now broken than it will be after I bastardize it. Realistically, 1000 - 2000 and careful shopping will get you a reasonably decent shape late model truck with busted trans or engine to start with down here. It's kind of funny to think of a 25 year old truck as a late model.

There are a lot of things built in to this truck that wouldn't necessarily be there on a regular F150. Oil cooler, big radiator, trans cooler, already lowered to my liking by Ford, 4.10's, aluminum driveshaft, duals, well supported ECU, truly horrible 17" wheels, sway bars, Bilstein shocks. I padded the base cost up to compensate for those things that I would want or have to do for a regular F150 - that's where I got the mystery 3500.00 truck value from. I'm trying to play fair because I'm not starting with a busted 302 truck and putting a 460 in it and having to add a lot of junk to support it.

As far as the 460 goes - see 350.00 lump in bed of truck in front... see competition in back. The whole point is to make the third thing faster than really either of these two. The one in back has the 2.7 Ecoboost, 3.73's and runs pretty decent for a 23,000 dollar bottom of the line truck. Bottom 14's.

and this poor old girl needs some attention bad.



I'm trashy by nature, but the crap in the driveway is coming out of Dad's garage from 50 years of accumulation. Some of it is getting airborne on the way out and my back is already complaining to the point where I'm not picking it up as I go. It's getting very close to having a hole large enough for the truck to go into. Other side of the fence is the domestic conflict Lincoln. You can see the shiny bumper through the fence just behind the Lightning. The front end us up against the corner of the garage, it's got a few feet on my truck. I really should have just pulled it out, but too late now! Damned project scope creep.

Come to think of it, until this thing will power itself out of the garage, I may have to call it Project Marital Discord. It's strong motivation to make it go vroom.