Lunch Money Lightning - Late model 460

[Thumpin455]

MAKE IT VROOM!!!

Yes I am slightlky inebriated tonight. Still want to see it vroom. I am vrooming a C10 you vroom a 150

[Beagle]

I had to check the weight on this thing and I still don't believe it. Baumann says 270 lbs with converter, the converter is about 30 so I guess that's not too far off. It took me and the guy selling it to put it in the bed, it's no lightweight... dang sure not a 4l60e... lol. But 300 dollars later, it's MINE! Some of the bolts look de-virginized like it's been in a shop before. That would be cool if it was refreshed, otherwise the story was it had 140k miles on it. I still plan to take it apart and look it over. At this weight, I really only want to install it once, or maybe it's time to finally get a transmission jack.

[Russell]

Don't drink and do transmission work. I messed up a T45 doing that. I was only switching the tail housings but I was playing with the shifter rod and got the linkage out of place. had to take it to a transmission guy to have him take it all the way apart to get it back in line. Buy/borrow/rent a transmission jack. That not one to try to stable on a floor jack.

[Beagle]

Good advice. The older I get, the less inclined I am to work on stuff when I've been drinking, which is becoming less and less frequent (both. haha.). I usually like to do the detailed stuff around coffee time when I'm sharper anyway. I keep a notebook and pencil handy because I don't have the memory I once had either (probably... from drinking.) There are several thrust washers / bearings in that thing that have to go back into it facing the right way. A one way clutch, well, you want it one-waying the right way. Having to take something apart again because I can't remember which way I put it in really aggravates me, so I try to leave bread crumb trails these days.

Except for the riding mower, which won't start if you're not holding a beer.

If nothing else good comes from this folly, the dang garage will be cleaner. Garage Purge 2020 continues. It's starting to really test my resolution but I see that train at the end of the tunnel!

[Beagle]

I didn't see anything in Elgin's catalog but I did find one in Lunati's catalog that matches those specs.
IF I was building an irrigation pump, that certainly would be a good choice!

found it - Elgin E-1055-P 2000-4800 Int .512214@.050 107 ICL / Exh.538 lift [email protected] 117 ECL 112 LSA

The Lunati bare bones is a duplicate of that more or less, they are all about the same. I woudn't be too shocked if Elgin ground them for everyone.

https://www.lunatipower.com/barebone...0-280-290.html

This is what was on the box - it calculates to a 5* advance ground in, 112 LSA:



I have a an early (68-72) timing chain set that is not supposed to be retarded like the 73 later. I am almost curious enough to try and measure it all out. If I can find my degree wheel, I'll do it. If I can't, it's not that critical for me to know.

The 112 LSA probably means no stock computer. We'll see if I get an even wimpier weak suck cam or buy the carb adapter.

[BBR]

I would totally give that a whirl with the efi.

[Beagle]

I used to be able to find more things on the internet than I can now - trying to find the pinout on a 7.5 computer is proving to be a real bitch. I'd be surprised if they weren't the same, but you never know. It may be worth an alldata subscription for a year. There are rumors of a MAF version for 97 Cali trucks. I'd have no problems putting that cam in with a MAF computer, but that means pin changes too and maybe an overlay for the injectors, also not a big deal.

[BBR]

I used an EVTM from a 96 Bronco and if I remember right, it was identical.

I have the '96 7.5L wiring stuff in pdf, but BS won't let me attach to a post. Send me your email and I will shoot it to you.

There was a MAF version in Cali. It used a 4 pointed crank sensor that mounts behind the balancer. They are all but impossible to find.

[Beagle]

Received, thank you sir! Some light reading before bed.

[Beagle]

Received, thank you sir! Some light reading before bed.

This stuff will cause sleepless nights if you let it. I've about "read" myself back into a carb. Bear with me for a minute here - it's still a bench build and I tend to be more transparent than I probably should be. Input is always welcome!

Short answer: Graft a TPS on the Holley and carve an adapter for the EFI lower manifold. Let the factory computer handle the E4OD. The Price motorsport adapter is 150.00 ... a suitable hunk of aluminum for carving is about 50.00. It's a carb adapter, it doesn't have to be .00001 precise. lol. Bonus "wife" points, all the junk to do this is sitting here already (GM HEI on 460 shaft, Holley). Concern: computer is going to be in limp mode, what does that do, if anything, to the transmission control? Since the ECU is worried about lambda, what if you put a resistor in place of the injectors? Let's find out.

The Long version: Long term, EFI would be an entertaining project. It's a bunch of time thinking and parts chasing to stay cheap though. The '96 and '97 Mass Air stuff for vans, trucks, and Broncos is a coin flip between 104 pin and 60 pin (EEC-V and EEC-IV). The ECU is the same hardware for 351 or 460, with a different strategy loaded. Firing order and injector size are different. Get the right one or plan to get a tuner... the trick is to get a ECU that is correct, but there are at least six different ECU's for them in the wild and not a helluva lot of supporting documentation on them. The 460 apparently got the over 8500 pound exemption so they seem to have stuck with EEC-IV and Mass air in some trucks and vans. MAF was usually the better OEM answer if you want idle manners with a lower vacuum (tight LSA) cam. Ford Speed Density is pretty primitive.

The 104 pin stuff is modern enough to want a VIN to flash the computer with, so it's kind of a non-starter for me. Getting the right 60 pin computer needs a couple of calls to make sure it can be tuned if needed (ie, I would feel better if a Moates QuarterHorse or Tweecer supported it). I kind of like the Moates still. It's ancient tech, but you can burn a chip when you're happy with the tune, and then reuse the module on another project. Then again, these computers are all around 25 years old. Quarter century old capacitors... great.

I still plan to work out a cheap factory EFI solution, but I don't want to stall this project with "Analyzation Paralyzation." I have done it to myself toooo many times before. It would be okay with me to make it run dirt cheap, then maybe not as dirt cheap. I'm eyeballing an MSII with GPIO board for tuning and the E4OD. In kit form, they are about the same dollar investment as factory EFI with a low buck tuner, which is in the same ballpark as a new 750 mechanical secondary carb. The E4OD is what really shocks me - over 400 bucks to control basically 2 shift solenoids and a lockup solenoid? I need to study this more. I think a speed sensor, a throttle position sensor, and a shift lever position input is all it would really need. Megasquirt has a lot of user/tuner support for a "safety turbo" (as the boys from Binky would say).

Other notes to self or anybody keeping score, the late and early 460's use different flexplates for internal or external balance. I have one on order for a late model. Late models also offered a gear reduction starter that is much lighter than old style, have that already.

[fatguyzinc]

limp mode will kill the trans quickly. it starts out in 2nd and goes directly to O/D,
its litterally just to "limp it home" and then fix whatever problem you had.

i know i said it before, but youll be time, patience, power, and reliability ahead
by ditching all the computer related junk and going old school carb and C6.

for my $, the top worst transmissions ever made were the 700R4/4L60E
by gm, and the AOD followed by the E4OD by ford. if you do end up using the
E4OD use a stand alone controller and as soon as you start the truck *everytime*
turn the O/D off and only use it on freeway, and NEVER tow in O/D.

just my $0.02, but "been there done that" and i wouldnt ever want to be there
again....

[BBR]

Good E4OD thread. This danlee guy was really onto it, but lost interest. The booger with doing a DIY circuit is dealing with the Electronic Pressure Control as it is a current driven apparatus... more current = more line pressure, not pulse wiidth modulated like some other electronic transmissions.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1216737-e4od-operation.html

[Beagle]

reading, but meanwhile, isn't .8 always good? grin.

[Russell]

Well I am not going to say Holley EFI any more. A quick and it looks like they don't support the e4od. You might be able to put a bbf bell on a 4l80e? It's just money after all! $$$$! It might be worth a call to the tech line they add stuff all the time.

Sometimes it's painful to be a ford guy.

[Beagle]

Good E4OD thread. This danlee guy was really onto it, but lost interest. The booger with doing a DIY circuit is dealing with the Electronic Pressure Control as it is a current driven apparatus... more current = more line pressure, not pulse wiidth modulated like some other electronic transmissions.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...operation.html

That was quite a thread, I learned a lot from it. Maybe I'll put a sewing machine rheostat under my gas pedal for EPC and some light switches for the shift solenoids. I don't care about engine braking, I care about engine accelleration! haha. I wish he had open sourced it - sounded like he was getting really close.

The MS / GPIO board says "Dev" for the E4od - I wonder what that translates to. More reading... maybe a junkyard scour for a shortbed C6 driveshaft just to keep this moving forward. Winter is always a good time for computer projects.