Lunch Money Lightning - Late model 460

[Beagle]

https://www.amazon.com/KNACRO-voltag...62961775&psc=1

I know about enough to let the smoke out of electronics. Could you take the PWM signal coming out of the GPIO and use one of these to make it variable voltage?

Dangit, this is frustrating. I will be off reading and probably asking a pile of stupid questions. For some reason, I think an Arduino and some transistors could do this. I'm not asking it to autocorrect AFR with a pile of inputs, just 3 or 4 inputs really (Throttle position, RPM and/or driveshaft speed - vss, and gear lever position) and 5 outputs (Convertor lockup, Coast clutch, Line Pressure, 2 shift solenoids)... or did I miss something already? GAK!

[BBR]

Just for grins. Thinking out loud. Controlling the EPC was the always the hang-up for me and doing a standalone E4OD controller. But it does not seem quite as difficult as I once thought.

12v is our max voltage available
1.0A is max current for EPC
V=IR says the EPC resistance is ~12 ohms.
I would assume this is a fixed resistance.

So if you vary voltage to EPC, you vary the current to EPC.

[Beagle]

Winter project, different budget... I think the tools to learn is sort of like college tuition, they're cheap enough to justify what I learn out of it. A flowmeter and solenoid tester rig, spare solenoid pack, not terribly expensive hardware to drive it. There sure seem to be a lot of Ford guys crying over 600 trans controllers, looks like an untapped market to me since there are two high priced solutions I can find. If I'm understanding it right, the GPIO or Microsquirt's limitation is PWM output on everything and the EPC doesn't like PWM.

I'm really out of touch with prices on this and probably should have bought all this junk 10 years ago. Seems like a couple of companies hoarded up all the MAF / E4od computers too so they can sell re-capacitor'd versions at double, triple, quadruple their value.

Ah well. Unless I can figure out something pronto, the end result right now is it aggravates the missus. I will end up pillaging the Lincoln anyway. I think she saw that coming. She's clever. I tried the phrases industrial yard art and steampunk recently to kind of test that theory. haha.

I did like the BBR idea to cut that Lincoln up! I could end up with a Semi portable engine run-in stand for pretty much nothing and that may be a real bonus breaking in flat tappet cams. Getting the garage usable was definitely worth it and as long as I'm off the couch already, might as well keep going.

[BBR]

So speed density is out of the question? These things are about as simple as you can get for an efi system. Batch fire, distributor, etc. I still have the 460 ecm we used in the yellow truck. IIRC tweecer and moates supported it.

Have you looked at the stock diesel E4OD controllers?

[Beagle]

Right - SD isn't out of the question and a Moates QuarterHorse isn't all that expensive. The Lightning's processor is supported and as far as I know wouldn't be modified if I were to just pull the Moates chip interface off of it if somebody wanted to make it stock again. A cam and header'd EFI 460 with the Moates is right at the target budget, too. I think you are right and the ski-boat cam I have would probably be okay.

The garage was a bigger win than I had anticipated. I have approval to keep going if I want to dismantle the thing in the back yard with a sawzall. We cut up a mostly burned down 60 foot long house trailer and hauled it for metal a few years back, so she knows what it entails. This job would have a lot less asbestos. That would be a treat for her, not seeing the car anymore. I'll think all this over while I'm cutting it apart, hopefully before I get the bright idea to do a Caddy Hack. Grin. Looks like the big thing for her is progress, one way or the other, although I did just bounce the Caddy Hack idea and was greeted with a look of utter terror. Hee hee.

The two minute drill today is get a fence around the Lincoln, I don't want the dogs around the sharp edges. The joggers and bicyclers and walkers will definitely appreciate the car being gone. My pit/lab mix stands on the roof and barks at them and he's a little intimidating like that... he's actually barking "Stop and PET ME" but it's a ruff translation for them.

[STINEY]

Your dogs' British cousin?

[Beagle]

Minus 30 pounds or so, mine is a dainty boy at 75 pounds... still oil cans the hell out of the roof !!

[cstmwgn]

... Holley EFI ...

OK, so MY experience with Holley's HP EFI system. While their menu supports TFI stuff, the techs run and hide wide when you ask for help. I was told by one of their senior techs (GURU) that I needed to find another way to make the plugs get warm as he claimed it would never work properly with TFI. His suggestion was to use their coil on plug stuff for another +1k ( I don't remember if that included the cam/crank sensor/oil pump drive which was another chunk of change). So I gave up and bought a F.A.S.T dual sync distributor which has worked very good as long as you are OK with changing the firing order to 5-4-2-6-3-7-8-1 in ADDITION to setting it at 50* before TDC. It seems ODD to me that you need 140* of lead timing for the computer to properly control timing adjustments but it does work. The EFI stuff does work OK, it might be marginally easier to maintain than the old school Holley but you give up a lot of "side of the road" options when stuff fails.

[Beagle]

That's good feedback, even if I'm really sorry to hear it.

I was being whiny this morning, resisting the 104 pin ODB2 OEM stuff. It dawned on me I'm being kind of an idiot about it... I user newer, cheaper, more available computers everywhere else in my life without even thinking about it. The newer computers are far more available and cheaper, but new territory for me. The QuarterHorse will tune old or new, so that's a decent long term choice. No more radical than this will be in v1, I think BBR is right and it will be fine with the stock computer and a tune (required, bigger injectors. I'm not sure that the firing order difference is a big deal with batch injection.)

If not? Well... there's always the Holley and C6. Tow the backup plan recovery truck to the track just to prove it will tow and be able to get it home if it breaks, get some times from both of them, and see how it did versus goals. For a version 1, I'm committed to slapping this together with junk that somebody can duplicate easily, that will go down the road "okay" for basically lunch money. That doesn't have to include EFI but it would be style points if it did. V2's budget won't be as tight - there are some old parts around the house that would make all this easier but not for this version. Eagle rods, forged pistons, that sort of thing... a decent hydraulic roller would be nice.

[cstmwgn]

.. a decent hydraulic roller would be nice.

I am completely OK with phased builds. My problem tends to be salvaging enough stuff from the previous build to continue. I do have another comment. I have heard (NO personal experience) that hydraulic rollers have bad pushrod angles due to their increased height. In the long run it really isn't that big of deal running the valves every now and then. I am a bog fan of mechanical cams. You can hide some duration with lash and benefit from the valves staying on the seat longer.

[Beagle]

Good to know, I'll check into that. It's a lot of money to get disappointed over. The only real reason for me to have one is fear lobe wipe.

I move slowly and this is a few days late, but made momma happy to get her truck back with no extra scratches. The longer truck rides a lot better. A - lot - better. Still no bolts for the stand, had 3/8 bolts and needed their daddy.

Blaster'd down all the exhaust bolts, figure I'll do that a few times and try to finesse them out.

[Beagle]

YES. 16 exhaust bolts out, none broken. New record. I pulled the trick Tedly just mentioned that I was taught when I was a kid but seem to have forgotten. Thanks for the reminder Tedly! Tighten, loosen, work those suckers out.



and these things are unique looking - Thermactor in the exhaust. No wonder these things are expensive. Good news is, they are both solid and apparently worth a couple of bucks, kick-a-buck for the budget. The ports look a lot better than the old C8xx - D3xx style.



Best 2 minutes (hahahahaha.. 2 minutes) I've spent all day!!

[STINEY]

YES. 16 exhaust bolts out, none broken.

I...well that... surely some...can't be...oh jeez I surrender

[Russell]

OK, so MY experience with Holley's HP EFI system. While their menu supports TFI stuff, the techs run and hide wide when you ask for help. I was told by one of their senior techs (GURU) that I needed to find another way to make the plugs get warm as he claimed it would never work properly with TFI. His suggestion was to use their coil on plug stuff for another +1k ( I don't remember if that included the cam/crank sensor/oil pump drive which was another chunk of change). So I gave up and bought a F.A.S.T dual sync distributor which has worked very good as long as you are OK with changing the firing order to 5-4-2-6-3-7-8-1 in ADDITION to setting it at 50* before TDC. It seems ODD to me that you need 140* of lead timing for the computer to properly control timing adjustments but it does work. The EFI stuff does work OK, it might be marginally easier to maintain than the old school Holley but you give up a lot of "side of the road" options when stuff fails.

Maybe they changed some thing. My Terminator X is running off of the stock TFI distributor plug and play. They seem to talk up the dual sink but I don't think it will make me go faster so I will keep the stocker!

The only ford tranmission they list is 4R70W

[Beagle]

What had me whizzed off earlier is this... in our world of TERAbytes, it takes two bits to control the two shift solenoids... 00 01 10 11 covers 1 thru 4. That is two light switches.

The EPC is more complex but I wasn't completely joking about a rheostat. I'm exaggerating the simplicity, we all know that, but... maybe it's worth spending some time on. The trick will be getting the TPS, MAP, and VSS from the CAN bus since they are already monitored sensors and all you want from the ECM is what value it is currently at - trivial stuff to ask for from a processing standpoint and probably already detailed in the protocol.

The 104 pin ODBii computers give you coil on plug capabilities, but I'm not there right now. I'm not wanting to deal with missing tooth trigger wheels and cam position sensors just yet. I believe BBR's setup is using that if that interests anyone, there's detail in the yellow truck thread (enough to make you want a Holley!! (Carb, to be clear.) lol.