Best Diesel for no electricity???

[dave.g.in.gansevoort]

Just reading about the Captain's new tow rig, and the Futureliner thread with some smartass () mentioning Detroit Diesel 6-71 engines. Then my warped mind went sideways and I thought about what if something like in the movie Escape from LA were to happen. At the end where Snake Pliskin triggers the device that takes out all electric and electronic stuff. Ok so we can't start our Otto cycle engnes as all electric equipment is gone. I know far fetched, but just suppose...

So we gearheads come to the rescue. How you say? Remember all those pre-electronic controlled diesels? You know the ones that have mechanical fuel systems, and compression ignition? And many ww2 and older airplanes that had a crank to wind up the engines to start? Or farm equipment for that matterthat had hand cranks?

So we as a group could be the sole saviors of civilization, given that we have the skill, or just plain luddite-ness to get one running somehow. It could make a good movie.

Other thoughts and ideas are required here. I'm not smart enoughto write a movie script...

[SuperBuickGuy]

it's when my collection of 6.2 and 6.5 Detroit diesels will make me a mint. one wire is all it takes. the Rover 300 tdi (and variants) are one wire as well. As is the Nissan and Toyota 6 cylinder diesels.
Perkins, of course. Most Cummins.... (pre 2010).
Mercedes. Honestly, I think that any diesel made before 2000 is pretty much guaranteed to work with just one wire.

With that said, some of those same 1 wire diesels (not the GM diesels), require an electric lift pump.... GM has them, but the main pump is more than enough to pull through them.

But that said, I'm a big fan of the 6.2/6.5 Detroit diesels - no, they won't win races but they'll last 400,000 miles if you treat them right and don't require cutting the firewall out plus adding overloads...

[SuperBuickGuy]

and before someone claims the PMD will shut the 6.5 down. No, it'll be a devil to start and be down on power, but the PMD - by itself - isn't enough to render them inoperable.... the PMD controls 'extra' fuel flow - like under boost or starting when cold....

[Beagle]

there are about a billion Kubota engines on refrigerator trucks that are mechanical. At 2200 or so CC they aren't powerhouses without a turbo (something like 45hp) but the stock pump will allow for double that and about 300 foot pounds with a tiny turbo if I remember all that correctly. I don't know about hand cranking one, they're still something like 18:1... but one of the old mowers I had many many moons ago had a wind up starter on it. You would flip a handle over, move a lever to the "wind" position and wind it up. Throw the lever and it would release the starter dog and spin the motor. I think that could work for a little diesel if scaled up a bit.

HA! Art beware, it's all been done. There's nothing new under the sun. While looking for some picture of the Briggs stuff, I came across this:

Sooo... you can write a story where a smarty pants 10 year old girl can save the ducks from inevitable extinction with a home made hand crank airplane. She doesn't need instructions, obviously, so learning to fly should be no problem!

Maybe a dirigible and she could use all my hot air to fill it! lmao.

Oh wow, this is almost exactly the mower we had. Ours had an osha nightmare self propel on it that worked by just lifting the handle. It would sometimes stick in the "Go" position, which made for some excitement for me on occasion as the mower outweighed me and we had a swimming pool it was usually pointed at when that problem showed itself. Oh man, good times. Thanks for those memories!

[Captain]

First Off......We Are Not Quite "Friends" Yet.........
Smart Ass Yes....Dumb Ass NO...
So It will Be "MISTER Smart Ass Too You"......
Only My Real Friends pay me compliments such as Smart Ass......
LOL
The Early Cummins Diesels were one wire, and if the solenoid went out, you could over ride it by turning the "Knurled Knob" in and it would start.
Also they had a Fuel Hand Plunger Pump to Prime The System Up, Helpful on Cold Starts, Same with early Caterpillar engines.

[STINEY]

Beags, Grandpa gave me an old pair of ISLANDER mowers. Puke green/Aqua paint scheme, and that awesome wind up starter. The drive system was a super-cool Rube Goldberg contraption that would certainly give OSHA a good time.

Does that ring a bell?

... but one of the old mowers I had many many moons ago had a wind up starter on it. You would flip a handle over, move a lever to the "wind" position and wind it up. Throw the lever and it would release the starter dog and spin the motor. I think that could work for a little diesel if scaled up a bit.

Oh wow, this is almost exactly the mower we had. Ours had an osha nightmare self propel on it that worked by just lifting the handle. It would sometimes stick in the "Go" position, which made for some excitement for me on occasion as the mower outweighed me and we had a swimming pool it was usually pointed at when that problem showed itself. Oh man, good times. Thanks for those memories!

[SuperBuickGuy]

Oh wow, this is almost exactly the mower we had. Ours had an osha nightmare self propel on it that worked by just lifting the handle. It would sometimes stick in the "Go" position, which made for some excitement for me on occasion as the mower outweighed me and we had a swimming pool it was usually pointed at when that problem showed itself. Oh man, good times. Thanks for those memories!

It's a good thing we didn't have a swimming pool near the yard, our riding mower would have ended up in it for sure.... my brother and I experimented with tethers to make our jobs easier.... unfortunately, the rope that was available did not have the strength to handle the stress..... mowed the vegetables pretty well, though.... if anyone ever asks why brothers exist... well, it was my brother's turn to mow - so clearly it was his fault.

[DanStokes]

Not sure how Truck would fair in a non-electricity world. The lift pump and the VP44 both need a bit of juice but no computer is involved in keeping the ol' boy running. Mutt could do just fine if you could find a way to spin him over - maybe a push down a, slope? He has no lights but that won't be an issue in a post-electric world anyhow.

Dan

[Beagle]

there is always reasonable suspension of disbelief when attending the cinema, but I'm not sure about the post apocalyptic world without electrons!! Can't we just build an electric starter out of... say... a Fosters can?

[SuperBuickGuy]

Not sure how Truck would fair in a non-electricity world. The lift pump and the VP44 both need a bit of juice but no computer is involved in keeping the ol' boy running. Mutt could do just fine if you could find a way to spin him over - maybe a push down a, slope? He has no lights but that won't be an issue in a post-electric world anyhow.

Dan

the most difficult issue with the P-pump or the Injection pump on the Detroit diesel (they are similar in design and function) - it uses a magnetic field to pull the pin and allow fuel from the pump to the injectors - it's possible, I suppose to mechanically do that but it's not a quick effort because you have to take the lid off

[dave.g.in.gansevoort]

First Off......We Are Not Quite "Friends" Yet.........
Smart Ass Yes....Dumb Ass NO...
So It will Be "MISTER Smart Ass Too You"......
Only My Real Friends pay me compliments such as Smart Ass......
LOL
The Early Cummins Diesels were one wire, and if the solenoid went out, you could over ride it by turning the "Knurled Knob" in and it would start.
Also they had a Fuel Hand Plunger Pump to Prime The System Up, Helpful on Cold Starts, Same with early Caterpillar engines.

You missunderstand- I was that smartass...

But the thread has legs...

So now we are all on the same page again, how will we save humanity? It's in our DNA.

Always park on the top of the hill pointing down. Dan remember the Big Cam Cummins we had in the HD cell that kept running way too rich? Until we let it suck its own fuel from a 55 gallon drum. Of course getting that thing to turn over would be a trick, but ... Park at the top of the hill!

A good 20-25 of us could probably push it to start it, or at least get it to the top of a hill.

But how about a small mechanical Kubota as a pony moter to start the larger iron? We had a Lister-Petter that had a recoil starter, that could start the Kubota, then a 3- or 4-71 sized engine, then the big iron. Ok silly idea...

Carry on, I'll take my meds now

[SuperBuickGuy]

There is something quite humorous (to me) in the idea of parking an air-brake-equipped semi at the top of a hill then dumping the clutch. I guess the one, real benefit of that would be it either starts or the driver dies....

we had a cat bulldozer that used gasoline to start the motor, then once it was warmed up, you'd switch to the diesel system. What I found most fun about that was it had a rope race so that you could start the motor with a pull rope... that said, if you could pull that thing started, why would you need a bulldozer?

[DanStokes]

Dave - pretty much all threads on here have legs! We're all nutty enough to play "what if?".

Dan

[dave.g.in.gansevoort]

Never thought about the air brakes... Of course if the engine had one of those old air starters, then it could be started easily, assuming no air leaks, or a big bicycle pump to recharge the tank.

[SuperBuickGuy]

Never thought about the air brakes... Of course if the engine had one of those old air starters, then it could be started easily, assuming no air leaks, or a big bicycle pump to recharge the tank.

Many giant ship engines start with air pressure - but those might be a challenge to get into your backyard.... didn't detroit diesel also have a OTR truck engine that started with air?

there's also gun powder started tractors.... I think the earliest weren't diesel of gasoline - I keep think they're liquid coal fired (the 'real' name of the fuel escapes me).