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  • Prius is gonna save the world?

    Considering how the plant that makes their batteries is killing off a whole town I think they should be banned.

    source for the following:



    "March 7, 2007
    Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
    By Chris Demorro
    Staff Writer

    The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ?green car? is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
    Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

    The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

    You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius?s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

    However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn?t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

    Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ?dead zone? around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

    The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius? battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist?s nightmare.

    ?The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,? said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

    All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn?t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ?nickel foam.? From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

    Wait, I haven?t even got to the best part yet.

    When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius?s arch nemesis.

    Through a study by CNW Marketing called ?Dust to Dust,? the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

    The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

    So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

    One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses"

  • #2
    Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

    The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.
    Average lifespan of both vehicles is probably going to be very similar. No way to know at this time though.

    My fabulous web page

    "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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    • #3
      Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

      hummer 6.5 will eat about 22 injector pumps in that time frame

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      • #4
        Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

        Originally posted by SpiderGearsMan
        hummer 6.5 will eat about 22 injector pumps in that time frame
        ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

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        • #5
          Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

          I haven't read this specific article before but I have consulted the author's source. The so-called dust-to-dust study done by CNW was all over the internet when it was first published. You can check it out here and find more info:



          I personally have not investigated the credibility of CNW or its research so I would not be comfortable drawing any specific conclusions from their report.

          Any manufactured good has an impact on the environment. When reports like CNW's are made or when people try to make general statements about which options would be best for the environment, there is no standard approach. To me, a true life cycle analysis would account for all consumed energy and pollution emitted from obtaining the raw materials, the manufacturing processes, an estimate of future energy consumption and pollution emission on a per use basis (including maintenance and performance degradation), as well as the impact of recycling and or destroying the product at the end of its expected lifespan. Coming up with the numbers to describe the above is a daunting task and has been undertaken by some companies and researchers. However, other than stating that "some people are working on it", I'm not sure if any credible results have surfaced (I wouldn't openly label the CNW report as concrete).

          In the case of ICE/electric hybrid vehicles using nickel batteries, like the Prius, it's hard to debate the effects of nickel mining. Right now the bulk of nickel for these batteries is coming out Ontario, Canada. I also saw recently, that the Salt Flats in Bolivia (on a side note, the world's largest Salt Flats - a way bitchin' place for some LSR) were being sized up for nickel mining since there is a great concentration of the metal there. It's easy to pick on nickel mining in this case, but consider the infrastructure and effort humans have gone through for oil - it was no easy task, it took 100+ years of some the greatest human effort to make this happen.

          There is no magic remedy that is going to negate or override the fact that we're a society of mass consumption - our needs will only become larger. For example, let's say we swap all our regular fossil fuel ICE cars for ICE/electric hybrids using nickel batteries - guess what, we're going to need a bunch of nickel. Where's that nickel going to come from: maybe some more from Canada, maybe a major deal is struck with Bolivia for more, maybe elsewhere but then what? We're dependent on a finite substance and in this case, not widely available. While I won't take any direct shots at Bolivia, but South America really doesn't have a stable political climate.

          I'm still a young-gun and maybe I'm being naive, but I believe we're way too smart and have too many resources at waste to be in this position. Could it be that we're too greedy? I don't have an answer, but I'm definitely sick of this habit. I won't be running out to be buying a Prius any time soon, hell just about any small car made in the last 20 years can get over 30mpg, so what's the big deal? We've got to rethink our approach here.

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          • #6
            Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

            I'm not sure of the validity of this comparison but it does have a point. The assessment of environmental impact is unbelievably complex and people want stuff to be simple. We have a friend who was trying to be environmentally sensitive and bought a Prius. This was a couple of years ago and neither an internet search nor talking to others (she didn't ask me prior to the purchase) netted any negative input. She was amazed when I spoke about the environmental impact of making the batteries and that the Prius was going to need a new set in 5-6 years. Never mind all the additional copper smelting that's required, etc.

            Bottom line - average folks out there aren't getting this info. They think better fuel economy = greater benefit to the environment. BTW - doesn't matter if it's a Prius or a Volt, the same considerations apply. I'm not sure who, but SOMEBODY needs to get the info out there that this is a two-edged sword.

            Dan

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            • #7
              Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

              Factual information will not affect the decisions of true believers.
              My fabulous web page

              "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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              • #8
                Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

                Originally posted by squirrel
                Factual information will not affect the decisions of true believers.
                true that
                Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                • #9
                  Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

                  Jim, you're probably right, but - people become "true believers" based on some input from somewhere. The lady I wrote about really would have made a different choice if she'd known "the rest of the story" (Paul Harvey). Folks on either side of the environmental spectrum are usually operating with only partial data. Having been in the business I find that I'm scrambling to keep up and I'm starting with a pretty good data base. The average person has little chance of knowing what's going on unless, thru various media outlets, they are getting a more complete picture. How to accomplish this I haven't a clue.

                  Dan

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                  • #10
                    Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

                    Prius and Hummer drivers are at either end of the spectrum, it's the folks in the middle who are more likely to make informed choices.

                    My fabulous web page

                    "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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                    • #11
                      Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

                      I do my part by getting into 12 pounds of boost everytime I pass I Prius. It also comes with the statement "I just cancelled you out!" ;D
                      I R Bob
                      You can't drink all day unless you start in the morning!
                      2007 LH, 2008 LH, 2009 LH, 2010 LH, 2011 LH, 2012 DNF/BLOW'D UP, 2013 LH, 2014 LH

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                      • #12
                        Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

                        yeah, i make sure to goose it good when I pass one....
                        My fabulous web page

                        "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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                        • #13
                          Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

                          If I was 'an aging Millionare,I'd arrange 'an all Prius Demolition-Derby,with some 'Smart Car's' thrown in for both laugh factor as well as shock value :o :o ;D ;D. Yuk-Yuk ;D ;)!! ~J/W-OO6.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Prius is gonna save the world?

                            Originally posted by squirrel
                            yeah, i make sure to goose it good when I pass one....
                            I like to mess with them, I'll let them take off first and then hit the gas so the motor stalls up to about 3 grand but I'll barely give any throttle so it sounds like I'm getting on it but really not going anywhere, so I'll stay with them for a bit making them think that their giving me a run and then I just hammer it and leave them like they are standing still. Yap got to mess with the Prius folk. ;)

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