Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

[Brad54]

Tossing around ideas in my head for Mugsie the Duster.

4spd OD manual trans, or a later 5-spd with OD?

The 4-speed would use the factory parts, including the shifter, the trans tunnel, carpet, etc. The 5-speed moves the shifter location to the center of the trans tunnel I believe. Its a no-console/bucket seat car, and it's going to stay that way.

I've got a New Process A833 4spd OD in my '62 Suburban, and it's pretty nice. .72:1 OD, it honks down the road. I can't really say I miss the extra gear--3rd is 1:1, like 4th would be on a regular trans.

However, I've been driving the truck for so long, with so many miles, I don't know if I don't actually miss it, or I'm just used to it.

A straight 4-speed isn't an option... it has to have overdrive.

-Brad

[Mr4Speed]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

Kind of depends on the personality/power band of the motor and rear end gear since the 4spd with OD is basically a 3spd with a highway gear. As an example my Firebird with the TPI 305 and 3.45 gear doesn't really need all five gears for tooling around town, and it's perfectly happy in 5th at 35mph. It would probably be faster with the 5spd, but aesthetics may be the only big difference. The 5 speed may be more fun to drive, or the 4 speed because it allows you to have the sweetness of a genuine Hurst Competition Plus external shifter.

What is your performance target? What's the motor going to be like?

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

Is the 833OD the Mopar version or the GM version, NP440? I'm curious as you have this in a Chevy, but didn't elaborate what the engine was and such.

I have the GM version in my 65 Impala. It's great for the price. I got the whole bit for $300. Trans, '621' 11 inch bellhousing, Hurst shifter and linkage, clutch, and flywheel. Second to third with my 3.36 gears is a bit of drop, but I'm planning to move up to 3.73 gears.

I'd like to have a TKO 5 speed, but the price is prohibitive right now.

[squirrel]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

A straight 4-speed isn't an option... it has to have overdrive.

there were some wicked low (number) gears available in the 8.25" rear....

[milner351]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

I can't offer an opinion without asking a few questions....

what is your commute like?
how many miles?
how much is highway - and how often do you encounter traffic jams / stop n go?


a stick car is always more fun to drive - but they are a nightmare in traffic jams

[Brad54]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

My commute: about 20 feet, and down two flights of steps... I'm a self-employed freelance copy chimp.

However, I do drive the hell out of all my vehicles--Interstate, country highways, around town, down into Atlanta. (Nothing better than honking along in Atlanta traffic in the left lane and effortlessly passing everyone in the '62 'Burb!) 25-30,000 miles a year pretty easy. I don't fear the road trip.

The trans in the 'Burb is the New Process 833, RPO-code MY6. It's the same as the Mopar A833 4spd OD. GM used them in pick-ups from '81-'87.

The Suburban has a 290hp crate 350, Dana 44 with 3.42 gears.

The Duster will have a small block in it, as yet to be determined. It'll either be a Magnum 360, or a stroked 360... aluminum heads, roller cam. Realistically, it should have about 425-450hp. 8 3/4 rear, so it'll be compatible with the dif in the gasser--keeps options open for both cars that way.
I'll drive it daily in place of the Suburban or the wife's '61 Corvair wagon.

The 4spd OD essentially has the same gear splits as an auto trans, and then Overdrive.

-Brad

[Silver68RT]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

From what I've read, the factory OD trans is weak, and won't last behind a hot 360 like that. Never had one, so I can't speak from experience, but I've read a bunch of articles that indicate it was mainly for slant 6's and 318 2bbl's, and wasn't suited for performance applications. Passon Performance has a heavy duty A-833 OD.

http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_Overdrive_Flyer_20091109.pdf

Did you see the posts about the new McLeod 5-speed that's coming? It's supposed to be a direct replacement for the A-833 - no cutting, stock shifter location.

http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Bangshift-Approved-The-McLeod-M-800-5-Speed-Transmission.html

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

My trans is from a 83 Chevy truck. I was told it was a NP440. A833OD is similar, but not the same at all. From the bolt pattern from the case to the tail shaft.

Oh, and mine has stood up to my abuse.

[oldsman496]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

cool link for ratios for heavy duty trans

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-19390.html

lurk around this site and there is LOTS more good shit.....

[BangShiftChad]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

We are so happy to see the Mugsie Duster is coming together!

For those of you that don't know, the Mugsie Duster was one of Freiburger's cars, and we were going to make it into a cool Car Junkie TV project. When he decided to clean house a bit, Brad wanted it bad. He flew into Burbank and then drove it home to Atlanta. He rules.

I'd go 5 speed. TKO500 or something like that.

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

We are so happy to see the Mugsie Duster is coming together!

For those of you that don't know, the Mugsie Duster was one of Freiburger's cars, and we were going to make it into a cool Car Junkie TV project. When he decided to clean house a bit, Brad wanted it bad. He flew into Burbank and then drove it home to Atlanta. He rules.

I'd go 5 speed. TKO500 or something like that.

Was this the one that was the subject of a very cool article in MCR a few months back?

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

727 , reduction makes it better to drive in snow

[Brad54]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

We are so happy to see the Mugsie Duster is coming together!

For those of you that don't know, the Mugsie Duster was one of Freiburger's cars, and we were going to make it into a cool Car Junkie TV project. When he decided to clean house a bit, Brad wanted it bad. He flew into Burbank and then drove it home to Atlanta. He rules.

I'd go 5 speed. TKO500 or something like that.

Was this the one that was the subject of a very cool article in MCR a few months back?

Yup. I did a story on the drive home (including blowing the head gasket in the desert and ignoring it, and getting the car running again with a pair of nail clippers), and just recently a story on taking the entire car apart to the bare body on a Saturday with three friends.
It just got back from the soda blaster... Bare Metal is better than viagra!

I didn't know about that McCloud... that sounds niiiiice.

-Brad

[Brad54]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

My trans is from a 83 Chevy truck. I was told it was a NP440. A833OD is similar, but not the same at all. From the bolt pattern from the case to the tail shaft.

Oh, and mine has stood up to my abuse.

Actually, I've researched this trans a ton, and wrote a couple articles on it.
The gear set is exactly the same as the Mopar.
There were two versions of it--one had a Mopar main case and mounting pattern. The other had a Chevy-style mounting pattern.
The tail shaft housings are the same as TH350, so that's what tail shaft seal you use, and speedo drive gear (same as 700r4, too)
The shifter is unique, and will not interchange with any other Chevy shifter that I could find, factory or aftermarket, and it won't interchange with the Mopar shifter either. The shifter mounts to the tailshaft housing , and the main case is much wider than a Muncie or Saginaw, so the fingers in the bottom of the mechanism and the shift arms have severe bends in them that the Mopar shifter doesn't need.

The Mopar-style mounting pattern has a unique aluminum bellhousing that seems to have been hastily cast--it still has the regular GM-style mounting holes that weren't covered by the Mopar trans, and they're plugged with plastic plugs. Hydraulic clutch slave actuation.
The other style will bolt to regular Chevy bellhousings, but the bearing retainer has to be turned down .250-inch, which will necessitate using Allen bolts to secure it, as regular hex bolts will hit the ID of the bellhousing hole.

The weak link on all of them is the aluminum case--the countershaft sits right in the aluminum case, and wallows out under abuse, causing the internals to eventually come apart.

-Brad

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Daily Driver Duster--4spd OD, or 5-speed?

You're right on all of that. I got mine with the factory Hurst shifter and linkage. I'm using a Hurst Indy shifter for a Muncie now with the original bracket and linkage. I made one inch spacers to get the shifter mechanism and linkage rods away from the case. I also moved the Z bend in the 1-2 rod back a couple inches. It works great now. Can't tell it's not stock.

If you need the original Hurst shifter, I still have mine. It's in excellent shape, but the chrome stick is pitted.

I'm using a '621' GM 11 inch clutch bellhousing and the bearing cover is turned down to fit. That bearing cover is a definite weak point on the trans.

Here are some pics of mine in the car. Sorry, I'll get some better pics of the linkage rods if you want.




Amazingly, someone did the same thing with another 65 Impala SS. Here's the link.

http://www.keystonegarageclub.com/transswap.html

I hope Mugsie's name returns to your Duster.