Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

[STINEY]

You know, like some airplane hangers use?

I decided Bifold doors would be the best way for me to start closing in my Barn-Shop, with the idea of possibly heating it someday. Rebuilding sliders with the intent of insulation & sealing are probably a pipe dream for me. Now welding up 2 or 3 Bifolds from angle or rectangular steel and screwing some siding and insulation to 'em, that seems more realistic.

Anyone have any thoughts, pro or con? Maybe voices of experience, like what they wished they had done differently?


This is a picture of a Bifold Door. Commercial units seem to be out of my budget for some strange reason.... :-[



Best picture I have of my current doors. Not much to look at, and Mother Nature takes them as more of a suggestion than an actual hinderance.

There would be one bifold on the open bay in the picture, and another bifold on the bay with the pair of sliders to the right of the open bay.

[Schtauffer]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

The hinge points at the top must be very sturdy, to the point that they seem over built. Think a piece of solid shaft with a pipe that slips over it cut into 6-12" lengths, alternately welded to the door and to a plate fastened to the building for a hinge. Drill a grease zerk in every section. Same deal for the hinge between the sections, but that doesn't have to be quite as beefy. Your wall needs to be very sturdy, too. Those big old barn beams look pretty solid.

These doors typically have two to four 1/4" cables per side in case a cable tears. It is very bad news if one of these heads for the ground.

The usually do not have any kind of counterbalance. To open the door they mount a beefy winch and pull up on the cables (which are fastened at the bottom of the lower section). Sometimes they block & tackle the cable setup.

Consider the heavy-duty 3" garage door rollers and track for the bottom if the doors aren't too big. You could also do a solid block of steel interlocked between some pieces of angle, if you keep it greased good.

Why not weld up a slider from angle and box tube? It would probably be less work and certainly less engineering. You could get new slider hardware from Farmer Boy... http://www.farmerboyag.com/Cannonbal...r_26040069.htm

[Nik2]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

You know, like some airplane hangers use?

I decided Bifold doors would be the best way for me to start closing in my Barn-Shop, with the idea of possibly heating it someday. Rebuilding sliders with the intent of insulation & sealing are probably a pipe dream for me. Now welding up 2 or 3 Bifolds from angle or rectangular steel and screwing some siding and insulation to 'em, that seems more realistic.

Anyone have any thoughts, pro or con? Maybe voices of experience, like what they wished they had done differently?


This is a picture of a Bifold Door. Commercial units seem to be out of my budget for some strange reason.... :-[



Best picture I have of my current doors. Not much to look at, and Mother Nature takes them as more of a suggestion than an actual hinderance.

There would be one bifold on the open bay in the picture, and another bifold on the bay with the pair of sliders to the right of the open bay.

Stiney, is there a reason why you are looking at a bi-fold over a slider or even a roll up door? Unless there is some major reason for it, I would think a regular door would be cheaper and easier.

[STINEY]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

Nik2, I live in Ohio - winter weather sealing is the main reason for even messing with the old doors.

I've been around a lot of sliders, and while some are better than others, most are lacking in keeping the warm stuff warm, at least in my experience.

Roll-up's in the size I need will be fairly costly as well. I'm cheap.

My doors face the prevailing winds too, and I fear roll-ups would seal no better than sliders in that regard.

Also I want to put some nice siding on this someday. A slider stands a fairly good chance of banging the siding up, especially with kids around...... and I'll just get PO'd if that happened.


Schtauffer, I get you on the solid block thing. I was thinking of using angle for the track from floor to header, with a nice solid steel wheel/roller on the outer bottoms of each door. When the door was raised, the rollers would follow the angle upwards. Would it need to be "captured" in a "track" for the lower portion?

These doors are roughly 16' wide by 12' tall. Would they need the truss sections to keep the span from bowing?
I was also thinking of some sort of counterbalance system, to where it could be lifted by hand and locked down with deadbolts into the vertical beams.

These doors get opened a lot in the summer, but mostly for air & light. In the winter they only rarely open to move big stuff in or out, so I don't need to get all fancy with the opening mechanism...... its not like my wife will be parking in there.

[DanStokes]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

Whatever Gene says. He's the Guru of Garage Doors here - trust him.

I think a really well made set of sliders with steel frames and insulation and hardware that will pull them into the jambs when closed would do the trick. At EPA we had roll-ups that were insulated and they worked really well but were pricey - unless Gene has some pre-owned units.

Dan

[Nik2]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

Stiney,
I grew up in Illinois, so I know what you mean on the winter weather. When my friend built his shop he had three sliders put in and had a latching lock mechanism that would pull them up to the building and sealed off from the outside. It was pretty basic, but it worked and it was cheap too.

[STINEY]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

Hey, wait a minute.....

Where are all the enablers on this site? I expected at least a "Samsonite" comment or two, but no one wants to encourage me on this wild idea?

[Nik2]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

Dude, we're enabler's when it comes to buying more cars or more parts, that's why we're helping you do the building for cheap. More money for cars. ;)

[Schtauffer]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

Nik2, I live in Ohio - winter weather sealing is the main reason for even messing with the old doors.

I've been around a lot of sliders, and while some are better than others, most are lacking in keeping the warm stuff warm, at least in my experience.

Roll-up's in the size I need will be fairly costly as well. I'm cheap.

My doors face the prevailing winds too, and I fear roll-ups would seal no better than sliders in that regard.

Also I want to put some nice siding on this someday. A slider stands a fairly good chance of banging the siding up, especially with kids around...... and I'll just get PO'd if that happened.


Schtauffer, I get you on the solid block thing. I was thinking of using angle for the track from floor to header, with a nice solid steel wheel/roller on the outer bottoms of each door. When the door was raised, the rollers would follow the angle upwards. Would it need to be "captured" in a "track" for the lower portion?

These doors are roughly 16' wide by 12' tall. Would they need the truss sections to keep the span from bowing?
I was also thinking of some sort of counterbalance system, to where it could be lifted by hand and locked down with deadbolts into the vertical beams.

These doors get opened a lot in the summer, but mostly for air & light. In the winter they only rarely open to move big stuff in or out, so I don't need to get all fancy with the opening mechanism...... its not like my wife will be parking in there.

By captured, you mean sort of hooked in so the block/roller can't come out horizontally? Or do you mean two pieces bolted together in such a way that it just creates a groove? Look at this drawing:

http://dm.cooksondoor.com/design_manual_2001/pdfs/a098.pdf

This is for a rolling door, but the basic guide design is what I would start with. The guide is three pieces of angle bolted together. The section at dimension X iss fastened to the wall; the other two pieces provide the groove for the door to slide down into. The angles should be at least 3" deep so it doesn't pop out of the angles under wind load or in the event the door gets bumped into (yeah, no one ever intends to; we get at least a call a day for doors that have been hit). Anyway, I think what I would do would be to get some 3/16" angle, 3" for the outer piece and 4" or 5" for the inner piece. This will give you a groove for the bottom roller/block to ride in, and also give you a positive surface for the two sections to lay against and seal. The actual door would fit between the outer piece but lay against the inner piece. Note that the inner piece has weather seal clipped on.

Snooping around on Schweiss' site might help you out a little. http://www.bifold.com/bifold-door-installation.php

I would be sure to use some kind of bracing in the internal structure to insure against windload. If you are making this thing out of angle and box tube, it will probably be sturdy enough.

If you want to put some springs on it, I can use my spring software to come up with a spring spec. What would be easier is some canisters with steel punchouts or sand or something that you can fine-tune as a counter-balance. You're going to have fun operating them by hand. As the door opens, an increasing amount of weight will transfer from the point of cable attachment to the upper hinge. Since your counterbalance remains constant, the door will be very difficult to close; if the counterbalance weighs the same as the door, and roughly half the weight transfers to the upper hinge, you will need 1/2 the weight of the door to close it. This can be dealt with by using torsion springs, but I would need an accurate weight at the closed position and the open position. You would probably want something with forks, and a grain scale. You'll spend some money on springs.

I would really recommend some kind of electrical operation, or at least a manual gear-reduced chain hoist; you can decide that after you get the doors working.

[IRONHEAD]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

why not two swing doors..
cheap to make, and seal..
and human power opens them fine, no cables needed

[STINEY]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

What is a "swing door" exactly? You'll have to spell it out please, I can be kinda slow sometimes.....



Thanks again Schtauffer. I've gotta run for the day, but your stuff is printed out for further study tonight!

[IRONHEAD]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

What is a "swing door" exactly? You'll have to spell it out please, I can be kinda slow sometimes.....



Thanks again Schtauffer. I've gotta run for the day, but your stuff is printed out for further study tonight!

like your house door,, but bigger and there is a left and a right..
you open one then the other if needed..
you grab handle and pull it open.. unlatch the other door (if needed) and open that.. they swing open like your front door on your house.. car, truck

doesn't look like your lacking the room to have them open that way

[KeithTurk]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

A. More Samsonite = less Sealing

B. I totally Dig the idea of bi-fold doors...... Roll up's suck just about as bad as Sliders... I've always been a Huge fan of California style half in, half out doors... unfortunately they don't work well in Rain or Snow...

C. Just do it...Then sell the junk and practice A. Above

[Mr4Speed]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

How about bi-folds that open horizontally rather than vertically? (like closet doors) Four 4' sections would be pretty easy to deal with.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Anyone ever built their own BIFOLD doors? Any input?

I was thinking sliders with a minivan like kick in at full shut. Get the top setup so it's slightly longer than the opening so the rear slide kick in won't stop the fornt slide from going all the way back. That'll get the top half to land on the building sides and then you just pin the bottom edge down with latches and a deadbolt and some floor drops for the middle.

Another idea would be for 3 small sections that nest at the top when open and hook together when down to seal the horizontal gaps. Put a tensioned seal along the vertical tracks for the door to drop into like the weather striping on your car windows.