MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

[Joe]

State Affected: Michigan
Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

Summary: HB 5897 is a bill that increases vehicle registration fees for all vehicles, including those with historic and authentic plates.

* Currently, you pay $30 for historic plates and they are good for 10 years. This bill would change the law and require that you pay $30 annually.
* For authentic plates, the current law says that you pay $35 for the plates and that registration is good indefinitely. This bill would change the law and require you to pay $30 annually.

Status of HB 5897: Hagerty Plus and our newly created affinity program, the Historic Vehicle Association (HVA), have been in ongoing discussions with House and Senate leadership on this bill voicing our strong opposition. It's part of a larger package of bills aimed at significantly increasing road funding for the state of Michigan. The estimated total cost of this bill is approximately $600 million. It is highly unlikely that the House or the Senate will vote on this bill before the November election. In fact, the Senate Majority Leader has said publicly that his chamber will not consider any fee or tax increase, which means that there is almost an iron-clad assurance that this bill would be dead on arrival in the Senate if for some reason it moved out of the House.

That being said, all bets are off after the election in November. After the election and before the newly elected officials take office on January 1, 2011, is the political witching hour known as lame duck session. During this period, legislation that would otherwise be politically unpopular becomes fair game. At this point, there's a reasonable chance that it could be taken up during the lame duck session and considered with the other road funding bills.

Bottom line: We have some time to coordinate a strong, effective strategy in opposition to this bill. In the coming weeks we will be organizing a meeting with all interested clubs and club members to discuss the issue and plan our opposition so please stay in touch!

Contact Director of Government Relations Carmel Roberts at [email protected] for more details.

[DanStokes]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

While none of us wants to see higher fees from the government, money to run the show has to come from somewhere. Michigan is in deep financial waters - perhaps more than any other state. If someone can afford a classic car is the $30/yr fee really a hardship for them? I'm guessing most folks will spend that on oil changes for their classic in a year. Now that I've lived in NC for a while I have a really clear vision of just how truly terrible MI roads are and if this money would fix some potholes it's worth it.

If they were talking about raising plate fees across the board by $30 that would be a different deal. That would hit poor folks who need their rides to get to work. The truth is that classic car owners have been getting a pretty good deal for a long time. I don't like it but evidently this is the time that the almost free ride has to come to an end.

I wonder if this affects my permanent MI trailer plate on the car trailer?

Dan

[JOES66FURY]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

30 bucks a year, and this is a horrible thing? shit...I pay 30 a month for insurance for mine...and 100 bucks for 2 years...and it doesnt even have historic plates...and when you run historics here you are limited to 5K a year. Sounds like the classic car owners had it easy...30 bucks for 10 years.

[ponchoman]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

Guys, the problem here is the "death from a thousand cuts". Right now I'm in strong opposition to ANY tax increases, ANYWHERE, FOR ANYTHING. To me, these fees are nothing but another tax. It is a constant assault on free enterprise, private equity and individual rights.

Most people don't really understand just how little of their income (no matter what that is) is left over for discretionary spending after the government gets done with them. ALL government. Federal Income tax, FICA/social security/medicare, state income tax, local income tax, local property tax, personal property tax, state sales tax, local sales tax, gas tax, capital gains tax, tobacco tax, environmental taxes, inheritance tax, and the list goes on.

Add in all the "hidden taxes" you're paying. All of our pork friendly politicians have been talking of a VAT "Value Added Tax", but in essence we already have part of one. The sales tax you pay includes tax on the taxed obligations of all the companies that contributed to the creation of whatever product or service you bought.

We're like lobsters. We were born into a somewhat warm pot of water including a certain level of taxes, but our elected representatives have added tax after tax after tax after tax to the point that we really don't recognize how much we're paying.

It's criminal. More than 50 cents out of every dollar I earn goes to taxes. For every sandwich I buy, I'm paying for somebody else to have a sandwich.

Increasing taxes and fees kills businesses. It kills economies. It kills countries. We need to wake up.

[Joe]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

While I usually jump on the 'no more taxes' bandwagon myself, this time I'm not.

I've always thought $30/10 years for a plate like this was almost too cheap. Considering the low volume of users, these aren't people living check to check depending on this vehicle to get them to work.

I'd gladly pay $30/year if it meant more money going to fix the roads I travel every day here in Michigan. Hell, I pay over $120/year to plate the GMC pickup I drive every day.

[JOES66FURY]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

to me registering my truck/car and paying a sales tax or income tax is different.
Driving is a privelage not a right, so is operating a vehicel on roads that are put there
by the state.

On the tax topic, property taxes here in AZ are dirt cheap, so money has to come from somewhere right?
yes, it comes from vehicle registration...I dont own a house but i get the screws put to me eery year...500 dollars
to register my 08 ram, 180 for my 99 Ram, 195 for my 02 Mustang and then you have the cost of registering my Fury...

so i hear ya, but I dont...you know?

[ponchoman]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

Glad I don't live in MI. Of course, it's no better here in PA. So let me ask a question. Just how many cars will be affected by this, and just how much funding is it going to raise? How much do you already think you're spending in terms of taxes and fees that area ALREADY supposed to maintain your roads?

When do people say enough is enough with state and federal governments and force them to live by the same rules we do in our private life. That is, when you don't have money, don't spend it. I know that Michigan has tried to cut spending this past year, however I suspect there is yet tons of unnecessary spending in there (that probablyl SHOULD have been cut rather than some of the education spending that WAS cut).

How many of you really have an estimate of what you're already paying in taxes and fees as a percent of your income? Serious question.

[ponchoman]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

to me registering my truck/car and paying a sales tax or income tax is different.
Driving is a privelage not a right, so is operating a vehicel on roads that are put there
by the state.

On the tax topic, property taxes here in AZ are dirt cheap, so money has to come from somewhere right?
yes, it comes from vehicle registration...I dont own a house but i get the screws put to me eery year...500 dollars
to register my 08 ram, 180 for my 99 Ram, 195 for my 02 Mustang and then you have the cost of registering my Fury...

so i hear ya, but I dont...you know?

Oh well, the argument I'm hearing is.... Gee, I already spend so much on other vehicles that it only makes sense to pay more for one that puts a minor fraction of miles on the road. You DO realize that the fees are STATE fees, not local our county fees? So the only roads this helps are really state roads? And that you're already paying income tax for that (AND Federal income tax which supplements the state highway fund), but because they can't either manage their budget nor effectively maintain their roads they want you to pay more?

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

I'm glad for the break they give collector cars in WA.... of course, most people don't read the fine print for the collector car plates - which says "only to and from parades, and events and less than 1500 miles per year".... many people abuse the privilege and I figure it's just a matter of time before that's ended here.

with that said, I don't understand your argument - are you arguing that they're not taxing you enough, or you're mad that despite the greatly reduced tax you want it to be less? why should it be less? because of your good looks and winning charm? you own two or more cars you want to drive on the road - then pay for it and save your arguments for when people start arguing that we need to crush old cars because they're not efficient.

[Barry Donovan]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

The bill is not that much, but can see oppostion making sense (cents)

Trucking and taxes.... you guys wanna see an owner operators yearly bills. holy crap.

I was disabled in 98, my dad paid enough taxes for entire life of someone on social security..no joke...as one owner operator.

this registration stuff is still pennies on a comparable dollar to be on the road with your historic machine.

even my own regular car is more than that yearly ..for one year at a time.

I hope real people get somewhere with it, taxes are outrageous. Even disabled people are paying back everything thier given on a tax. it is a hilarious...almost.. :

[ponchoman]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

with that said, I don't understand your argument - are you arguing that they're not taxing you enough, or you're mad that despite the greatly reduced tax you want it to be less? why should it be less? because of your good looks and winning charm? you own two or more cars you want to drive on the road - then pay for it and save your arguments for when people start arguing that we need to crush old cars because they're not efficient.

Please read the thread. You are misrepresenting my position. Nowhere did I say they should pay "less". I simply do not agree that they should pay "more". Every part of our government is increasing fees and taxes. Each of of those self-important groups believe that "THEIR" cause is just. Therein, the death of a thousand cuts. I have no idea where you got the above statement. "Greatly reduced tax"? Pal, believe me. I'm paying for each and every car I've got. A LOT. Many of us have turned into a society of sheep, looking at each individual issue and deciding, "sure, I think I should pay for that". All while forgetting that you ALREADY ARE. You are already paying toward the maintenance of those state roads with fuel tax. With income tax. With sales tax. With existing registration fees. This is a question about should you pay MORE than you already pay now. That is, in this case if you live in Michigan.

It's just like your kids coming to you saying that their allowance isn't enough to pay for something important and you should give them more - but they're blowing most of their allowance on bubble gum and video games. You've given them money. They spent it on a bunch of stuff. Now they want more. And more. And more. And more. And more.......

I'm a little sensitve about taxes and fees right about now. Been working on MY taxes. Like I said - and no making this crap up. All in, more than 50 cents of every single dollar I earned this past year has been allocated to one form of tax or another. It is criminal, and it didn't happen overnight. It's crap like this constant assault that has made it this way. Sorry for the rant, and I know $30 a year doesn't seem like much. BUT, think of it this way. It's an overnight 1000% (yes, that is a one thousand percent) increase.

[JOES66FURY]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

I can see your point of view, like I said I pay a boat load to register my cars too...all because the state has to make money because their property taxes are low. I pay per the state assessed value of my vehicle...almost 500 bucks a year for a new car... 500 f-ing dollars a year! for 1 newer car (08 Ram)...and it goes up if the value of the car is more....so if you own a 100K new Vette...your paying 1200 bucks a year to register a vehicle! Oh and don't forget the emissions testing fees. It sucks, and we can bitch about it all day long...but the real question is what to do about it....you say we are mindless sheep for paying taxes but what are the masses doing when it comes to choosing elected officials...I think less than 36% of the citizens of Tucson turned out for the last election (as an example).
And what of the Americans expectations? We expect our roads to be taken care of, we expect good schools, we expect police and fire departments but we bitch and moan every time there is a tax hike...so what is supposed to be done? the officials have to listen to the people if they want to get elected again, so here come the budget cuts...at the expense of those services that we expect and that pisses us off...

[70chevyC-10]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

Nebraska assesses plates for cars based on the "value" of the car - similar to what Joe's are -
my wifes 2007 is still in the high $400's per year.
We have REALLY high property taxes - AND the roads suck too.

But my 70 pickup costs $28.00 every year for plates. That's about the only good thing cost wise about an old vehicle.

[ponchoman]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

Here's a thought...

Maybe we should require state dept of trans (whatever state) to operate like a business?
Maybe we should hold people accountable when they do a crap job surfacing the road?
Maybe we should have state employees (Not all here, just making a point) have similar work days to those of us having to be accountable?
Maybe we should hold elected officials accountable for their actions?
Maybe we should reduce spending on some of the ridiculous crap that we spend on and focus on those things that are really important?
Maybe we should force state governments to purchase like a business does? Force competition? No more no-bid no-competition contracts?

Why is it that the federal government and state governments used to be able to operate with so much less of our personal income and now they can't? You can't say it's because there are more people. That also means there are more incomes. Inflation doesn't necessarily affect governments like it does for us, because they automatically get "raises" as they get "paid" based on a percent of our income. Obviously, they're hurting now, because revenues are down, so taxes are down. I understand that.

I'm just sick and tired of every damned politician, group, and governmental agency saying they "need" more money. When's the last time a tax or fee went away? And now we're about to add taxes for.... Health Care "reform", Carbon Emissions, Finance Reform, Energy Conservation, fill in the blank. I paid over $3k in state sales tax for my last car. I'm paying at least $.51/gal for fuel taxes for my OWN fuel, plus the taxes that get passed to me for transportation of goods. Some of that is for road maintenance also. Oh, and then there's the "tolls" for interstates here that was put in place to pay for the inital construction of a highway, and was supposed to go away after that. 60 years later and multiple "toll increases" and it's still here.

I'm just fundamentally opposed to ANY "new" fee or tax, and any increase - period. Our state and federal governments need to start figuring out how to take LESS and not MORE of our money. We are "mindless sheep". We have far too many people apparently incapable of understanding what is going on. Of course, it doesn't help matters much that the top 5% of income earners pays 60% of all federal taxes and the top 50% pays 97.11% of all federal tax. The bottom 50%? 2.89%, at an effective tax rate of 2.9% That's as of 2007 tax returns, directly from the IRS. No Bull. Just maybe that has something to do with recent voting trends. 50% of our population is getting pretty much completely subsized by the other 50%. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

[dieselgeek]

Re: MICHIGAN: Active Legislation Impacting Collectors: HB 5897

this is a great thread going here.

While I think the $30 a year thing is truly no big deal to a car guy who'll drop $40,000 in a heartbeat on something he's never gonna really drive.... I REALLY think Poncoman's point is the winner here.

What's really going to be done with that extra money? it's gonna get spent, then the politicians are going to spend MORE than they have, then the cycle will continue until 90% of you income is going to a tax of some kind or another.

History is repeating itself. I am so ready for the REAL tea party (and not those morons calling themselves "Tea Party" right now, either).