Why is it wrong? A question I would like answered.

[ponchoman]

Re: Why is it wrong? A question I would like answered.

Honestly I think it's some of those other shops that are most at risk too. I see these often as guys who love building, enjoy body work (means there's something wrong with them ) but frequently have no business experience or organizational skills. Sometimes they can do some great work and really help people out, but end up shutting down because they focus so much on the "fun" parts and get hammered on the "business" part. There's one guy around here that I continue to try and help out because he's a good guy that does good work, but he's getting his lunch eaten because he not only doesn't know how to manage a business, but he doesn't like it. Between the EPA, taxes, overhead, etc there isn't much margin there to begin with and it's not an easy path. Those shops are invaluable resources for the average guy who wants to do a driver quality resto or a nice street machine.

[Thumpin455]

Re: Why is it wrong? A question I would like answered.

I tend to agree, but I honestly think there are two models that can be used to succeed. There are a couple shops locally that work in different ways.

Jon's shop, where my dad took his car does a lot more "quick turn" work than he does complete scratch builds. There's something new in there virtually every day and Jon and John will do anything from wiring work to hanging sheet metal (Hack Job General Lee), to complete builds (Fat Lane Fairlane). That's one way, where the small stuff is really the core business that is supplemented by the full builds.

The other side is a shop like DMC where full-on builds are really the order of the day.

Brian

Hey Brian, don't you think there's a third one too? Small relatively inexpensive shops that kind of do the entire spectrum but for stuff other than major national show cars? There's a few of those kinds of shops around here. No big money. Time and material rates focused on helping DIY guys with stuff they just aren't comfortable with or don't have time for. Builds that run from just fixing some rust cancer on a nice driver car to some real nice local cars. To me, those kinds of shops are the grass roots of keeping these older vehicles alive. If you expect somebody having to rebuild the rusted out gutter channel around the trunk or rear window of a '64 Chevy to do it all themselves when they're inexperienced at MIG welding, using a dolly, etc, then we're gonna be stuck with a bunch of rotted out carcasses that never get fixed, or when they do it'll look awful.

So what you're saying is I am freakin awesome. I can dig that. ;) :D Its not a matter of not having the skills, that isnt the difference. Its the intent that they dont need to know how to do something because they can just pay someone to do it for them that irks guys like us. Well that coupled with accolades and the guy saying he built it when he didnt. Not everyone can do everything on a car, and fewer still can do it well or good, but at least they do what they can or try to learn something new. Its easy to learn to rebuild a 3 speed automatic, checkbook Joe wont bother with it, backyard Bob wishes he knew how so he could save that $1000 for something else. If someone wants to know how to do that sort of stuff, take a vacation, come on up here and I will teach them, or they can find out the same way I did, at school.

I have a different sort of family thing going on, but when I do have my kids around I spend time with them and we do things. Its not always car related but even girls can get into working on the car with dad if its a fun project and you make it fun for them. Get excited about showing your kid to repack wheel bearings or to swap brake pads, those are things that are simple to learn and something the kid can brag about at school. They can have the same pride in workmanship that we have and they can say to themselves that they did that part of it. My 13 yr old is chomping at the bit to get back up here and run the bead blaster some more. How much fun is cleaning parts in a bead blaster? Its what you make it and how it is presented to them that makes a difference. We also spend lots of time at the lake, playing computer games, talking, and doing stuff away from the shop, but they still enjoy helping me with whatever project is going on.

No I dont think everyone should or can know how to rebuild everything on a car, but there is something missing from the guy who builds the car compared to the guy who buys it. The difference in the two is apparently lost on the checkbook type.

[ponchoman]

Re: Why is it wrong? A question I would like answered.

So what you're saying is I am freakin awesome. I can dig that. ;) :D Its not a matter of not having the skills, that isnt the difference. Its the intent that they dont need to know how to do something because they can just pay someone to do it for them that irks guys like us. Well that coupled with accolades and the guy saying he built it when he didnt. Not everyone can do everything on a car, and fewer still can do it well or good, but at least they do what they can or try to learn something new. Its easy to learn to rebuild a 3 speed automatic, checkbook Joe wont bother with it, backyard Bob wishes he knew how so he could save that $1000 for something else.

You are awesome! But why does it irk "guys like you" that somebody thinks they don't need to know how to do something? I completely agree that it's BS for them to have somebody else do it and then they take credit. But if instead they're giving credit to who did that particular piece of work, then where's the beef?

I have a different sort of family thing going on, but when I do have my kids around I spend time with them and we do things. Its not always car related but even girls can get into working on the car with dad if its a fun project and you make it fun for them. Get excited about showing your kid to repack wheel bearings or to swap brake pads, those are things that are simple to learn and something the kid can brag about at school. They can have the same pride in workmanship that we have and they can say to themselves that they did that part of it. My 13 yr old is chomping at the bit to get back up here and run the bead blaster some more. How much fun is cleaning parts in a bead blaster? Its what you make it and how it is presented to them that makes a difference. We also spend lots of time at the lake, playing computer games, talking, and doing stuff away from the shop, but they still enjoy helping me with whatever project is going on.

You're lucky there. Not everyone has that opportunity. Not even talking about my kids, I'll mention a good friend who's also a definite gearhead. He's got 2 boys. One has always been into cars and has worked with him on many a project. The other doesn't have the slightest interest. Just the way it is. Neither one is a pansy, believe me. People are just wired different.

No I dont think everyone should or can know how to rebuild everything on a car, but there is something missing from the guy who builds the car compared to the guy who buys it. The difference in the two is apparently lost on the checkbook type.

We'll just have to disagree a little. First of all, still not sure if there is agreement as to what the "checkbook type" is. Is it somebody who does a good bit of their own work, but farms out other stuff? Is it the guy who buys a car outright? Is it the guy who buys a project and has a builder do everything for them?

They're just different kinds of guys. No better and no worse. I certainly have the highest respect in terms of technical skill around cars for guys who do it all themselves, and the more you do yourself the more respect I have concerning their technical auto skills. I enjoy being around all of them so long as they're good people. I don't care if they've never turned a wrench. Matter of fact, sometimes one or two of those guys makes it fun. They can be truly funny. But some of those guys who are mechanically incapable I have incredible respect for because of the other skills they can have. One guy as an example who has built 3 thriving businesses. Another guy who spends an incredible amount of time doing volunteer work and helping other people. These guys aren't "missing something". They've just got other stuff.

[ponchoman]

Re: Why is it wrong? A question I would like answered.

BTW, this is a good thread. Very interesting how different the perspectives are. It would be real interesting to kind of cross-reference the opinions with what occupation people have.