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Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

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  • #1

    Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

    So - I'm on my way to work this morning and the cars runnin' great. I pull into the local stop-n-go, grab some junk food and get in the car to leave. As I back out of the spot and pull forward to leave.. there's a loud 'SNAP' and the steering wheel suddenly gets a 'dead spot' directly on-center. I mean, I can push the steering wheel, right then left, with almost no resistance, then it grabs and steers....this dead spot is about 15 degrees of rotation or about 6" both left an right before the wheels begin to turn.
    So I open the hood grab the steering column ( headers are hot) and it will rock back an forth and the pittman arm is stationary.....whatever broke is in the box. I've got it out on the bench and the old WS6 box with 100,000 miles is back in the car and the car drives as it should now....


    This was a "Fancy" steering box from AGR that I bought 5 yrs ago with a matching pump. They both went back to AGR for repairs...twice each.... before I got them to work right. But they've been good since... I will throw this out there.... I like to run that box with no belt on the pump. Sometimes if I have a long road trip, I'll put the belt on, but most of the time its off. I like it like that. I'm hopin' someone doesn't tell me I killed this box because of that....I've never had a box apart before, but I'm gonna real soon now.... If anybody has any smart-ass comments or kind and wise advice...I'd be happy to hear what ya got to tell me....... :-\ ;D
    Mike in Southwest Ohio
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

    I don't know jack about the finer details of the inner workings of a steering gear box, but looking at the "HowStuffWorks.com" site, I wonder if the Rotary Valve broke in your gear box. Says there's a torsion bar in it, if that's the case perhaps the "unpowered" exertion on it snapped it? Just wondering. Either that it snapped a tooth inside it. I've known people that run standard GM power steering boxes with out hooking up the pump, but I can't imagine it's good for them.
    Escaped on a technicality.

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    • #3
      Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

      I do run the hi-pressure hose into the return line (loop) and make sure to have the box as full of fluid as I can get it.....




      Not to sound proud or anything....but I have run power boxes with out power for yrs at a time.......I like the 2.5 turns lock to lock and ya don't get that wit' a manual box...... :-[ :-[
      Mike in Southwest Ohio

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      • #4
        Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

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        • #5
          Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

          Your a nice guy spidey... i dont care what your kids are sayin' 'bout ya'... ;D
          Mike in Southwest Ohio

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          • #6
            Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

            they hate me ........

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            • #7
              Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

              torsion bar broke? neat. Or maybe it's roll pin.

              Yeah, that could be caused by running with no belt, since the part is not designed to take the full torque fo steering the car...it's just a spring that deflects more as you use more steering force. As the torsion bar twists, the spool valve opens more in that direction, causing the piston to turn the steering box that way, which untwits the torsion bar.





              My fabulous web page

              "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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              • #8
                Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

                gotta be at work by 5am tomorrow, so I won't be takin' it apart tonight... >, but I will tomorrow.

                The teeth in these boxes are big and pretty storng - So I'm betting on that torsion bar thingy being broked.....



                should I use torches to remove the snap rings? :-\ :-\ :-\
                Mike in Southwest Ohio

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                • #9
                  Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

                  I generally use snap ring pliers, but I guess you could use torches?

                  My guess is that they put a stiffer torsion bar in the modified boxes to improve road feel (stiffer bar means less spool valve deflection and less power assist for the same turning force applied to steering wheel).

                  Stiffer springs are more prone to breaking....

                  My fabulous web page

                  "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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                  • #10
                    Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

                    AGR told me the biggest change they do is to open up the pressure line and they play with differing size restrictors in the lines..... I played phone tag with the tech folks there for several weeks while we worked out the problems after my initial purchase. I never really like the on center feel of this combo when under power. It was numb and this set-up never liked to be 'pushed hard' when the belt was hooked up...if I started having to turn the wheel, lock to lock, really fast, the pump couldn't keep up, and the steering would get really stiff all of a sudden ... really sucked ... tech guys never could give me an answer for that. :P
                    Mike in Southwest Ohio

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                    • #11
                      Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

                      I couldn't help but notice a worm gear to pitman..

                      as steering is two directions, there is no chance in hell that is just gonna last...

                      remeber what direction you were turning to break it, I bet it does it again... :

                      and hydraulic power is a smoother, instead of manhandled jerks of the wheel. if you notice power decrease on the engine through power steering, it is time to scrap the setup anyway...

                      I got 90 hp with power steering growling at t-rated 1356 pound tread for years.. (and it is 23 original) on a 4wd independent setup..and diff locked modes. there is really no excuses to hurt ones self anymore.

                      Previously boxer3main
                      the death rate and fairy tales cannot kill the nature left behind.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

                        Originally posted by boxer3main
                        I couldn't help but notice a worm gear to pitman..

                        as steering is two directions, there is no chance in hell that is just gonna last...

                        remeber what direction you were turning to break it, I bet it does it again... :

                        and hydraulic power is a smoother, instead of manhandled jerks of the wheel. if you notice power decrease on the engine through power steering, it is time to scrap the setup anyway...

                        I got 90 hp with power steering growling at t-rated 1356 pound tread for years.. (and it is 23 original) on a 4wd independent setup..and diff locked modes. there is really no excuses to hurt ones self anymore.

                        Huh? It's been the standard for how many decades?
                        Escaped on a technicality.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

                          Trucks still use it and when they stuck a rack in the Crown Vic for the first few years they were crap till they beefed stuff up. Heck BMW kept using worm and sector boxes till the early 2000's on thier stuff! I don't know what the crap you are talking about or even what just came out of our mouth really.

                          I don't know about the guts but I know who I had rebuild my box does the Baja truck boxes. Lee Manufacturing. Love the feel and assist level of my box.
                          Central TEXAS Sleeper
                          USAF Physicist

                          ROA# 9790

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                          • #14
                            Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

                            why not get a non power box

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                            • #15
                              Re: Anybody know GM - saginaw steering boxes?

                              Originally posted by oldsman496
                              Not to sound proud or anything....but I have run power boxes with out power for yrs at a time.......I like the 2.5 turns lock to lock and ya don't get that wit' a manual box...... :-[ :-[
                              Because... ;)

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