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Are throttle cables unsafe?

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  • #16
    Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

    Throttle cables are safe.
    As long as decent return springs are used.

    Lets wait and see what happens when cars are equipped with brake by wire and the brake response is as lame as the electronic loud pedal.

    Gerrit
    Netherlands
    www.lowlandsXtreme.com --- Facebook: lowlandsXtreme

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    • #17
      Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

      I'll take a different position. I have no issue with throttle cables or mechanical linkage. I also have no issue with throttle by wire or drive by wire. ALL new military aircraft are fly by wire. Don't see them falling out of the sky. New commercial aircraft are fly by wire. With electrically controlled systems, you can in theory eliminate some failure modes. You can more precisely adjust the "feel" of the system and create far more accurate responses that may be impossible to duplicate with a mechanical system. It also eliminates some physical obstructions or problems with clearances, etc.

      I don't like the idea of a nanny state collecting such information, but to be honest it already makes no difference. Whether the throttle is electrical or mechanical, the computer records throttle and rpm data so it just doesn't matter.

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      • #18
        Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

        Originally posted by ponchoman
        I'll take a different position. I have no issue with throttle cables or mechanical linkage. I also have no issue with throttle by wire or drive by wire. ALL new military aircraft are fly by wire. Don't see them falling out of the sky. New commercial aircraft are fly by wire. With electrically controlled systems, you can in theory eliminate some failure modes. You can more precisely adjust the "feel" of the system and create far more accurate responses that may be impossible to duplicate with a mechanical system. It also eliminates some physical obstructions or problems with clearances, etc.
        well thats all fine and good^^^^^^^^^^^
        but the systems in those aircraft cost more than the whole cars your compairing the wire system to...
        I'm sure the multi million dollar jets fly by wire is nothing like the systems in a auto...
        apples and oranges

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        • #19
          Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

          Using cables and mechanical linkages is just not feasible in aircraft. Too heavy and the sheer size of the aircraft makes fly by wire an acceptable alternative. Plus airplanes don't sit in stop and go traffic day after day after day.

          We've already hashed this topic up and down but, to replace a 12" cable with an electronic device is going a bit far IMO.

          Life is short. Be a do'er and not a shoulda done'er.
          1969 Galaxie 500 https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/ba...ild-it-s-alive
          1998 Mustang GT https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/ba...60-and-a-turbo
          1983 Mustang GT 545/552/302/Turbo302/552 http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum...485-bbr-s-83gt
          1973 F-250 BBF Turbo Truck http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum...uck-conversion
          1986 Ford Ranger EFI 545/C6 https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/ba...tooth-and-nail

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          • #20
            Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

            I'm not of the opinion that mechanical linkage (including cables) are a bad thing. I just don't think electrical is either. Airplanes don't sit in traffic and start and stop. But they do fly for hours and hours and days and months and years and decades at a time - with far more safety concerns. We have not "hashed this up and down". There are a bunch of people saying it's bad. I haven't seen anybody disagreeing before.

            It obviously makes sense for some reason, as automakers are in business to make money. If it didn't make sense for some reason they wouldn't do it. We may disagree with the reason - that's fine.

            Auto computers are absolutely in no way shape or form similar to a personal computer. The entire system is a completely controlled environment. No 3rd party apps or custom configuration, or generic hardware, as in a PC. There is no technical reason the auto system cannot be reliable.

            BTW, mechanical linkage in an aircraft is feasible. They've been doing it for decades. It's just that fly by wire is more effective. And in some cases, absolutely essential. Without computer assist, the F117 would not be flyable. It would crash.

            My guess is that if you really think these recent things will result in going back to mechanical linkage you're going to be surprised. In the days of ABS brakes, traction control, ESP, variable valve timing, etc - there just ain't no way.

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            • #21
              Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

              The most tragic thing about this whole subject is the fact that the average driver on the road today does not have the common sense to put a vehicle in neutral, and get it off the road and shut it down..... instead they call 911 and continue to drive.

              That being said - I prefer a cable.... however, there are many many reasons to go to drive by wire.

              - allows interaction with other systems as poncho mentioned - abs, rsc, transmission, etc.

              - allows infinite tuning of relationship between pedal position and throttle position.


              if you want to make a car "feel fast" simply make the throttle open faster in the first 30% of pedal travel... it will FEEL fast. The relationship between the pedal and throttle is seldom linear - even in the older cars.

              My powerstroke trucks have been throttle by wire - and I've never had a problem....

              I still don't understand how Toyota could create a system that did not require throttle to go to zero when the brakes are applied.
              There's always something new to learn.

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              • #22
                Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

                Originally posted by milner351
                The most tragic thing about this whole subject is the fact that the average driver on the road today does not have the common sense to put a vehicle in neutral, and get it off the road and shut it down..... instead they call 911 and continue to drive.

                thats not completely far. as some auto's will not let you..
                and, I'm sure to some, the car going with foot off the throttle is as unnerving as the brake pedal going to the floor...
                most here wouldn't have a problem. but we also can do rockfords,, slide a rearend around corners and fishtail a car and be mostly incontrol.. the reg driver can not, most times...

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                • #23
                  Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

                  I hear you about some folks being more un nerved than others...

                  If a vehicle can't be put in neutral from Drive - - the design/ development system is broken.

                  If a drive by wire system doesn't default to idle throttle setting when the brake pedal is pushed, and/or the gear shift placed in Neutral, and/or the emergency brake applied -- the design/ development system is broken.


                  I wonder if highway patrol officers are trained in aiding a runaway vehicle situation?
                  There's always something new to learn.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

                    How many cars and trucks have the FAA mandating an inspection interval and triplicate reducancy? I don't like the "ramp rate control" on my TBW Lincoln LS and the power assist on our fleet G6's is weird feeling, like those powered pallet jacks that respond to how hard you pull them. TBW makes a lot of things simpler, torque management, cruise, idle air control, traction control, even how fast you can accellerate. However it's dependent on a single or maybe pair of sensors and a single computer with just a handful of very thin wires. If we build cars to aircraft standards they would last a long time but they'd be horrifically expensive and you'd get a new model every 10yrs not 4.
                    Central TEXAS Sleeper
                    USAF Physicist

                    ROA# 9790

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                    • #25
                      Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

                      Originally posted by CTX-SLPR
                      How many cars and trucks have the FAA mandating an inspection interval and triplicate reducancy? I don't like the "ramp rate control" on my TBW Lincoln LS and the power assist on our fleet G6's is weird feeling, like those powered pallet jacks that respond to how hard you pull them. TBW makes a lot of things simpler, torque management, cruise, idle air control, traction control, even how fast you can accellerate. However it's dependent on a single or maybe pair of sensors and a single computer with just a handful of very thin wires. If we build cars to aircraft standards they would last a long time but they'd be horrifically expensive and you'd get a new model every 10yrs not 4.
                      You're right about this, but the implications of a failure mode are also less serious for a car than for an aircraft. So, it's only natural that the safety mandates not be as intricate. No differently than how FAA maintenance requirements for a commercial multi-engine complex aircraft are different than for a Piper PA28 or a Cessna 152. I think the point to be made is that you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Drive by wire systems offer some advantages and they have some drawbacks. Mechanical linkage has their own set of pros and cons. There is a place for both, and I seriously doubt that computer controlled throttle is going away. I do suspect some mandatory safety designs might get enforced.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

                        BTW, here's an ironic point.

                        Some of the same people who normally argue against the "nanny state" and "government intervention" because the government gets involved in mandating things are in this case arguing that a "new technology" is bad, and that perhaps it should be outlawed.....

                        Just interesting to me how the discussion can easily change based on our individual preferences.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

                          My '88 "Opel" has (best of) both (worlds?) ...
                          A cable-operated throttle on the carb, AND some sort of TPS next to it to tell the 'puter how much throttle the moron behind the wheel is giving it... ;)
                          www.BigBlockMopar.com

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                          • #28
                            Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

                            Actually, we're looking at the whole thing backwards. Electronic throttles actually came about because manual throttles simply are no longer needed. The computer controls mixture and all it needs is some sort of input to tell it how fast you want the car to go - from there on the computer decides how much throttle opening, fuel delivery, spark advance, etc. is needed to make that happen. So a potentiometer mounted under the driver's foot gives that input and the 'puter does the rest.

                            No government conspiracy, just advancing technology. Like all advancing technology, it can be done well or poorly. Toyota (and maybe Chrysler) made a mistake. Maybe more accurately, their sub-supplier made a mistake. Not acceptable, I know. Our HHR has all the new stuff and seems to work great.

                            Dan

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                            • #29
                              Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

                              I do not think we are looking at this backwards.
                              We want to buy cars that are affordable. all these extra controls make them less affordable, leave us in less control and only complicate the system.

                              yea, some people want a car that will drive them to the store like a chauffeur and don't mind paying for it. Personally I like driving.

                              on average how much does the financial cost of a system like this add to a car? just in parts alone?

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                              • #30
                                Re: Are throttle cables unsafe?

                                Remember the Audi Unintended Acceleration flap in the '80s? Those were cable operated throttles. And most likely driver error, but it at least demonstrates that just about any throttle linkage is able to cause panic over stuck throttles.

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