91 Crown Vic 5.0

[Rustang]

So, Cobey found a sweet deal that I think I'll have to jump all over. His bro-in-law has a 91 Ford Crown Vic with a 5.0 and a blown tranny. Motor was running when it was parked though. Looks like a 100 dollar bill will basically get the entire motor with harness, computer and whatever else would be useable.
My 87 5.0 has speed density fuel injection and from what I remember, Ford swiched to Mass Air in 91 on the 5 liter motors. I know that you can buy a Mass Air conversion kit for Mustangs prior to 91. Does anyone know how similar the Mustang 5.0 and electronics are to the Crown Vic's 5.0? I know that mine is an HO motor. Not 100 percent if the Crown Vic is an HO motor but I'm pretty sure it is because it's a roller motor. I'm just looking for a little info and help here. And how crazy would I have to be to not scoop this up?

[min301]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

A couple years back, I rebuilt an engine
for one of these.
It is in fact not an H.O. motor, it is a one piece seal,
roller ready motor, with cast pistons, and flat tappet hydraulic cam.

Have you had the lifters out?
The heads should be similar to the 5.0 H.O.,
the intake is smilar, but not quite the same, with a smaller T.B..

[Rustang]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

No, I don't have the heads off. I actually haven't even seen it yet. Just doing a little thinking and research. According to Wikipedia, all of the 5 liter motors in Crown Vic's and Mercury Marquis were roller motors from 91 and later with a HP rating of 150. Sounds kinda puny. How similar are the blocks? The HO's have hyperutectic and not cast pistons.

[Russell]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

No, I don't have the heads off. I actually haven't even seen it yet. Just doing a little thinking and research. According to Wikipedia, all of the 5 liter motors in Crown Vic's and Mercury Marquis were roller motors from 91 and later with a HP rating of 150. Sounds kinda puny. How similar are the blocks? The HO's have hyperutectic and not cast pistons.

Block should be the same, the HO did not get Hypers until 93 I think 85-92 they were forged, 86 were flat tops. Are you sure the Vic had Mass air? there is something else that is different maybe batch fire?

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

adapt a 700 , then that would be a car

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

mustangs and cop cars had hi tin blocks

[BBR]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

It is probably a speed density motor with a tiny roller cam and a tiny throttle body. Many CV's (I won't say all, but I have not seen any with E7's) had E6 heads as well.

The last 5.0L I had in the Ranger was originally from a CV. I rebuilt it and added forged pistons, an HO cam and the Mustang upper & lower intakes.


EDIT:

Looks like maybe they had both:

http://fordfuelinjection.com/5.0Lpinouts.html

[milner351]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

check it out carefully before you buy if you want it for the mass air.

Unfortunately, Ford didn't do things across the board on the 302 - there were a zillion variants.

I purchased a "302 out of an 89 mustang" that should have been a forged trw piston / e7 / Roller / one piece rear main engine.... well - it was cast low compression pistons - everything else was there.

Be carefully and do the research if you want it for those specific items - if you just want another 302 and rebuildable aod and 8.8 - you're safe.

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

351 it

[Rustang]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

Thanks for all the replies!
I'm not surprised that this motor isn't the same as my Mustang's and I didn't think it would be. I was just trying to figure out how much of it I could reuse.
The motor in my car is the original motor and it has over 200,000 miles on it. The oil pressure runs way low and I know it's in need of a rebuild. I've got a thing for keeping the original stuff, so the Mustang's 5.0 would most likely get a stock rebuild.
This Crown Vic motor would be most likely built up with some mods as money would allow which might not happen for awhile! I'm pretty sure I should pick 'er up even if it might end up hanging on my engine stand.
Is it possible to figure out what heads are on it just by looking at the outsides? Is this not a good motor to add some performance mods to?

[tedly]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

If it is not an HO engine, then it can not be made into a hydraulic roller motor. The lifter bores are different, the HO ones are deeper than the non HO. If the cover on the center of the upper intake doesn't say HO on it, than it can still be made into a good engine, just no hydraulic roller cam. If the cover is missing, check the firing order, the HO and non-HO orders were different. As for the computers, I doubt very seriously they are interchangeable without some serious pin swapping. I don't remember how to tell what the heads were, but I have seen a non-HO motor built to the hilt with a blower and nitrous, so they can definately still handle abuse. Let me scratch my brain a little more and see what I can come up with for ya.

[tedly]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

If you are after a mass air swap, it is relatively easy to do. Snag the stock computer and mass air meter from a Mustang (you won't need the wiring harness or anything else but make sure to get one from an auto if your car is an auto, a stick if yours is a stick). The speed density system was a three wire system, mass air was 4 wires. The fourth wire was a ground. The trick is getting hold of wiring schematics for your cars computer pigtail and the donor cars pigtail. Swap the appropriate pins in the pigtail, wire up the ground, plug in the new computer and you're done.* You might want to consider a larger after market MAM, but it's the same deal. The main reason for doing the mass air swap is that you can run a more aggressive cam without reflashing the computer. Speed density meters fuel by engine vacuum (which drops with a bigger cam) and mass air systems meter by air flow into the intake, making it much less sensitive and much more easily adaptable to cam changes.

Sorry if I'm a little vague or not using the correct terms but it has been 10 years since I worked on 5.0's and I'm running off of pure memory right now. :-\ Hope this helps and let me know if you want more info.

*Edit: Forgot to add that you will need the MAM pigtail and running the wires to the MAM. Sorry. :-[

[BBR]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

Non-HO motors (C-Vics, Marquis', T-birds, Cougars and trucks) were also available with hydraulic roller cams. I think I still have a CV roller cam in the junk box out in my shop from the Ranger's old donor motor.

[tedly]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

I could be wrong. I'm trying to remember things from 10 years ago. I thought that hydraulic lifters couldn't be used on a non HO block because the lifter bosses weren't deep enough to cover the bleed down holes on the lifters. They would physically fit in the holes, but would cause problems if you tried to run them. I'm not doubting you BBR, I just wasn't aware of plain Jane 5.0's having the hydraulic provision. I'll try to dig around on the net and see what I can find. Apologies if I screwed up.

[milner351]

Re: 91 Crown Vic 5.0

Look for E7 in the casting number of the cylinder heads, E7TE as I recall where the castings on the '87 and up HO and truck engines.

The one piece rear main seal is one sure way to ID a modern block - but it won't tell you if it has the TRW forged pistons in it - only pulling the pan or the heads will tell you that. They have TRW in the bottom of them - you can see that from the underside if you pull the pan off - saves you some time compared to pulling the heads off.

The '93 and up mustangs got hyper-eutectic pistons, and I think those also got the stamped steel black valve covers.

Not that valve covers aren't easily swapped - but - as far as I know the cast aluminum valve covers were ONLY on the HO's.