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  • Solvent Effect

    WASHINGTON - The Obama administration has approved a 50percent increase in the amount of ethanol used in fuel blends, but only for newer vehicles, a decision that critics say could confuse consumers.

    The Environmental Protection Agency said yesterday it will allow blends to include as much as 15percent ethanol, up from the current 10percent limit. The ruling is part of an effort to reduce the nation's reliance on fossil fuels and decrease oil imports.

    Yet, a 15 percent blend is not deemed suitable for older vehicles. The EPA said gas stations will be required to clearly label their pumps to prevent customers from buying the wrong fuel.

    The agency said the so-called E15 blend should be used only in vehicles built in 2007 or later. The blend should not be used for cars and trucks made before 2001 because they were not designed for higher ethanol blends.

    The agency is still reviewing data on vehicles made from 2001 to 2006, with results expected in November.

    To mitigate the impact of its decision, the agency said it will not mandate that gas stations offer the E15 blend.

    "Ultimately it will be up to fuel suppliers and retailers to make it available," said Gina McCarthy, a senior EPA administrator. "It's by no means assured the market will develop quickly."

    The risk of consumer confusion and potential legal liabilities have spurred a number of groups, such as automakers, boat builders and refiners, to oppose the EPA ruling.

    "The large majority of today's vehicle warranties only cover gasoline with up to 10percent ethanol," said spokesman Bob Greco of the American Petroleum Institute. "More ethanol in gasoline could result in the voiding of customer warranties."

    Also fighting E15 is an unusual collection of other foes such as livestock ranchers and environmentalists.

    Refiners lament the cost and complexity of supplying different blends to gas stations. Ranchers worry that it will drive up costs as farmers shift away from growing corn for feed. Environmentalists say higher blends will lead to the clearing of more land for corn.

    Supporters of higher ethanol blends contend that it will reduce the nation's dependency on foreign suppliers of oil and keep more U.S. dollars at home, helping the American economy.

    Under federal law, the U.S. is supposed to double the amount of alternative fuels by 2022. Ethanol, a byproduct of corn, is the most readily available type

  • #2
    Re: Solvent Effect

    too much ethanol can clean all of the buildup on the inside of the gas tank and melt the fuel pump

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Solvent Effect

      too much ethanol can clean all of the buildup on the inside of the gas tank and melt the fuel pump
      Years ago I had some guy tell me ethanol was a dirty fuel because he kept clogging fuel filters after using it.
      I reminded him that alcohol was a great cleaner..... he still didn't believe me.
      It also dried out a lot of rubber parts.
      Act your age, not your shoe size. - Prince

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      • #4
        Re: Solvent Effect

        from the looks of the story - E15 should have a separate pump

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        • #5
          Re: Solvent Effect

          they will have to install seperate tanks as well, no? So how many places are going to have twice the pumps and pay money to have their parking lot ripped up, new tank, and then the parking lot repaved just for new cars?
          Neal

          Drag Week 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013

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          • #6
            Re: Solvent Effect

            Originally posted by studemax
            too much ethanol can clean all of the buildup on the inside of the gas tank and melt the fuel pump
            Years ago I had some guy tell me ethanol was a dirty fuel because he kept clogging fuel filters after using it.
            I reminded him that alcohol was a great cleaner..... he still didn't believe me.
            It also dried out a lot of rubber parts.
            It'll only clog up the first few fuel filters. Once it's removed all the crap from the gas tank to the filter, it's perfectly clean ;D Of course if you have a lot of crap in the tank, that could take years and dozen's of fuel filters. I put no less than 25 fuel filters on my T-bird in three months before I decided to just replace the gas tank :P
            Escaped on a technicality.

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            • #7
              Re: Solvent Effect

              Originally posted by nesabo
              they will have to install seperate tanks as well, no? So how many places are going to have twice the pumps and pay money to have their parking lot ripped up, new tank, and then the parking lot repaved just for new cars?
              on, they'll have reg 87 10% ethanol
              then instead of "mid grade" you'll have this 15%
              then super.. as super is a dog seller, but kill off the mid grade and , ta da super sells, and it's the fuel that you make the money on.
              most stations have 3 tanks + now
              mid grade will go bye bye

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Solvent Effect

                I thought that ethanol was in 15% already..

                what keeps that as mixed with gasoline. I even get diesel from gasoline..unless that is the crud it is cleaning.

                I did take note the 23 year engine I am still driving has calmed slowly but surely. I'd throw anything at it. I bet it is just cleaning as mentioned.

                rubbber stuff did have to go in several places. that is about it... maybe that emission grade 7k volt coil, etc etc..all that had to go.

                is pre 2001 reasoning known?
                Previously boxer3main
                the death rate and fairy tales cannot kill the nature left behind.

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                • #9
                  Re: Solvent Effect

                  Originally posted by boxer3main
                  is pre 2001 reasoning known?
                  Screws with the air/fuel ratio, the ECM will change the fuelling to maintain the AFR of E10 or straight gas, at which point is no longer correct for E15 and then would start effecting NOx emissions even IF nothing else is really noticed. So emission compliance is likely the #1 issue. Rubber lines, etc. might be a secondary issue.
                  Escaped on a technicality.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Solvent Effect

                    Originally posted by TheSilverBuick
                    Originally posted by boxer3main
                    is pre 2001 reasoning known?
                    Screws with the air/fuel ratio, the ECM will change the fuelling to maintain the AFR of E10 or straight gas, at which point is no longer correct for E15 and then would start effecting NOx emissions even IF nothing else is really noticed. So emission compliance is likely the #1 issue. Rubber lines, etc. might be a secondary issue.
                    ahh.

                    time for holley to build little carbs for everybody. and may as well make a couple of blo thru 300s ;D
                    Previously boxer3main
                    the death rate and fairy tales cannot kill the nature left behind.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Solvent Effect

                      Originally posted by IRONHEAD
                      Originally posted by nesabo
                      they will have to install seperate tanks as well, no?
                      on, they'll have reg 87 10% ethanol
                      then instead of "mid grade" you'll have this 15%
                      then super.. as super is a dog seller, but kill off the mid grade and , ta da super sells, and it's the fuel that you make the money on.
                      most stations have 3 tanks + now
                      Around here they have a tank for 87 and one for 91 and the pumps make the mid grade by mixing the two.

                      Strange as it may sound, I'd probably be ok if they did away with 91....my junk runs ok on 87.

                      My fabulous web page

                      "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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                      • #12
                        Re: Solvent Effect

                        Its a bunch of hoopla without cause. If you have 10% ethanol now, you wont have tons of sludge in your fuel system. The extra 5% ethanol wont do a thing if you have been running 10% already. It wont harm anything in the fuel system or engine to raise it 5% if it can run 10% then it already doesnt have the rubber pieces that gasoline likes but ethanol doesnt. You guys do realize there are many more rubber/plastic parts that are compatible with ethanol than with gasoline right? Gas eats that stuff too, but there are a few that are compatible with both fuels.

                        Now if you have always run the crap 87 and it hasnt been oxygenated in the entire life of the vehicle, then you will have varnish and crap in the tank and lines. Even switching to 10% would clean it out. If you add a small amount of 10% or E85 to it over time, it can clean it out and not harm anything, a half gallon or less of E85 mixed with a full tank will start the process but not clog things up. You can sneak up on the percentage until you can run 10% or 15% without clogging the fuel pump sock, the filter, or getting that crud stuck in the injectors.

                        As for older cars not liking ethanol, my 70 GTO only needed a newer accelerator pump diaphragm to run on E85 after I drilled the carb for more fuel since it needs less air and I cant lower the airflow. It runs great on the stuff and nothing has corroded or broken down in the 4 years it has had E85 in the tank.

                        The 98 Formula has run E85 straight, but it did pull a lean bank code. However on 50% ethanol it runs great, makes much more low and midrange power, and runs smoother without vibration. I mix it on long trips and during the summer, so far nothing bad has happened to that car either. When I run E85 in it I mix it with the 87 octane instead of the 93, and it is usually quite a bit cheaper. It only loses one to two mpg with the high ethanol mixes, so it saves me money on long trips.

                        I have a 92 S10 Blazer with a 4.3 it ran much better on ethanol, plenty of power, started easy, ran smoother, and nothing wrong with its fuel system either. Same with the 92 F150 with a 5.0L in it.

                        Listen to the naysayers and be afraid if you want, or start testing and find out for yourself like I did. I have run high % ethanol in every car I have. The only ones that need work to run more than 30% are the ones with carbs, all of my EFI engines can run 50% easily, sometimes more. Go ahead and believe the people who say methanol and ethanol are the same thing and have the same properties and drawbacks. You could also hang out with the people who say the earth is flat and the universe goes around us, they are out there too. Just because they say it is so doesnt mean it is. Find out for yourself.

                        Any time you want to drive a car with lots of power on ethanol and then see the difference with gasoline, just stop by. Gasoline does far more damage to engines and fuel systems than ethanol does. Why do you think its a problem when you run something through the system that cleans it out?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Solvent Effect

                          when we went to ethanol , to replace mtbe , we had quite a few bad mixes , wasting fuel pumps

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                          • #14
                            Re: Solvent Effect

                            now the price of corn will skyrocket , look for food riots

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                            • #15
                              Re: Solvent Effect

                              In older cars without return lines and a sealed fuel system. Ethanol creates moisture! This is proven and why it is not good for older cars.

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