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**squirrel** · December 8, 2010, 08:31 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

put your stuff on your hoist, and say "sure, but first could you come over and help me finish this job on my truck so I can get it off my hoist?"

probably won't be bothered by that guy again

**Tazracing** · December 8, 2010, 08:33 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

better to give than recieve
where's your holiday spirt

**daved931** · December 8, 2010, 08:37 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

Sometimes I feel like a heel because I have a friend with a lift and I seem to hog it a lot.

He's a good friend and I offer to pay him, bring beer, bring food, etc and he won't accept anything. I usually show up with beer and shove it in his fridge anyway. I'm just afraid that he won't accept anything because we're good friends and I helped him build the place. It still costs money to heat it and keep the lights on and he's got money wrapped up in tools.

So I guess I'm that guy on the other side of the fence that takes advantage of the guy with the heated shop, although I try not to. *shrug*

Anyway, in relation to your problem, I would say you should ask for money. A good friend will understand that you're not being a dick, you just need to pay for heat and electricity that you otherwise wouldn't be using. Besides, if they give you $20 or $50 or whatever for heat/power, it's still WAY cheaper than if they took it to a garage and paid someone to do the work for them.

You may also find that your friends have a skill set you don't have and you can barter that way. Computer repair, painting, body work, etc.

**TheSilverBuick** · December 8, 2010, 08:39 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

Jim nailed it me thinks ;D

I've just become the stubborn grinch about it :-\ Just last weekend I had someone I barely know insisting I look at and fix their four wheel drive in a 2002 Blazer because "I know cars" :

I finally had to cut one guy off I helped once a few years ago. It started with I rebuilt his carb on his 307 Olds engined Lesabre, next thing you know it was, do the spark plugs and wires, take a look at the door locks, the ignition switch is sticking, etc etc. Every six months or so he'd show up with something. Sorry guy, I'm done I got my own stuff I need to get done, I'm not looking for a second job. Now I just recommend a shop in town that has always done right by me for anything I've brought to them (cause I was too lazy, etc).

**William Wilson** · December 8, 2010, 08:40 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

It is ok, to say no.

I personally use the case of beer rule and thats just to access my crappy toolbox and workspace.

Now if I had thousands and thousands of dollars worth of tools and equipment I'd probably say no a whole lot more.

**milner351** · December 8, 2010, 08:41 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

The barter thing works with some people - when they are willing to take the time to return the favor.

If all the guys that came over to use the hoist were like you Daved931 - I wouldn't have had a reason to post this!

**Bamfster** · December 8, 2010, 08:42 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

Family is always free as long as I have the time, friends pay for their own parts and bring food and spirits. Everybody else pays cash for my time, knowledge and work space.

**DanStokes** · December 8, 2010, 08:42 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

I haven't had that issue in Wilmington but it came up from time to time in Ann Abror. The way I handled it was I guessed how many hours I thought it would take and multiplied by $20. Then I'd say "bring it over this weekend and we can do it for $XX.00". Either they paid or I didn't spend my time (shop resources, etc.) on it. I also reserved the right to not charge if it was someone I actually liked or who I thought really needed a hand at that time.

Hope this helps!
Dan

**cantvalve16** · December 8, 2010, 08:43 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

Squirrel, that's a good idea.

John, I have had that problem. Though, mine has come in the form of friends that don't know anything about cars wanting me to work on their stuff while mine sat. I helped where I could. Thing is, it was upsetting my wife because helping out everyone else was cutting my evening time with her to nil. Not to mention, it bothered her to see my project in the garage not making any progress. You know, not pulling it's weight.

I was maintaining our 2 DD's, trying to get the Ranchero together, rebuilding a major system every month on a friends truck, and helping out with the random auto problems other friends had. Finally just had to start turning people away starting with my buddy's truck. Now, I only do the occasional guaranteed short job or even just "taking a look" and giving friends an idea what it will cost when they take it to a shop.

It's nice to help broke friends out of a jam, but when I started becoming their coupon to free labor, that is where I draw the line. I'm more than happy to help out those in a true jam. It seems after a while you just learn to be discerning. Not obligated.

**milner351** · December 8, 2010, 08:49 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

Yea - beer and food helps, but it doesn't replace my time, and with Lee around now - that time is more precious than it used to be.

I guess I need to get better at asking for money, or tools, supplies, etc. At least the neighbor that's used the blaster often has offered to buy sand, nozzles, etc. Other guys have bought special use tools, brake bleeder kits, etc. Stuff that's handy to have around occasionally that I may not have bought myself.

It's a give and take thing - it's hard to keep balanced at times... thanks for your thoughts and suggestions guys.

I've charged to work on stuff in the past - I've quit doing that since I just don't have the time.

Do you think $20 an hour for heated hoist time sounds reasonable? (without me helping much)

**Loren** · December 8, 2010, 08:53 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

If it's anything like having a trailer which everybody wants to borrow for free and return damaged, or with a tractor that they "know how to operate", I have wound up doing this:

I will not loan the equipment out but I will offer to do the task myself, with my equipment. When they give up trying to borrow it for free themselves (and there will be some argument), they consider how it would be if I would come do the work and then they are afraid they will owe me a favor for my time, which they will. ("Oh God, NO...") That usually kills it.

You might say that you can't quite let guys come and use your lift, but you would certainly be willing to load their car on it and try to do the work yourself, for some type fair trade. Risky ('cause you don't actually want to work on their stuff for them) but 8 out of 10 times, after the arguing, they'll back off and not keep bugging you anymore.

No free work. I have done far too much in my time, my effort is already spoken for and anybody who wants if for free can go get lost. There are all kinds of people who will bring something of their own to the table when they could use your help, those are the guys to spend your effort on.

I it weren't for all the times I have loaned things out and had them come back f'd up, with the guy acting like it couldn't be helped and it is therefore not their fault, I wouldn't be such a dick about it but whatever.

Some people seem to want to loan me things, for my part I have a rep for not breaking stuff, or fixing it if I do, or finally for buying my own if I really need it again. I try to imagine what their motivation might be for the loan and then work with it. Some guys want a visitor to stay the afternoon. Some want beer which is a lot more fun to drink if you didn't have to buy it. I can borrow a whole road grader when I want, but I better happen to do some of the road that the owner drives on and bring it back with some diesel fuel.

(edit)..the above written before your last post, John...

You know if you charge for hoist time and a guy hurts himself on it, you're screwed.

**Tazracing** · December 8, 2010, 08:55 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

Originally posted by milner351

Yea - beer and food helps, but it doesn't replace my time, and with Lee around now - that time is more precious than it used to be.

I guess I need to get better at asking for money, or tools, supplies, etc. At least the neighbor that's used the blaster often has offered to buy sand, nozzles, etc. Other guys have bought special use tools, brake bleeder kits, etc. Stuff that's handy to have around occasionally that I may not have bought myself.

It's a give and take thing - it's hard to keep balanced at times... thanks for your thoughts and suggestions guys.

I've charged to work on stuff in the past - I've quit doing that since I just don't have the time.

Do you think $20 an hour for heated hoist time sounds reasonable? (without me helping much)

I'd stick to tools and beer foord or talant swaps, not cash.
once you charge cash, if they hurt in your garage, , I'd stick to beer and food etc.. leave the cash for people that like getting sued

**milner351** · December 8, 2010, 09:04 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

Good points guys - I know you'd understand and have experience.

Didn't think about the lawsuit thing, that could get ugly quick, yikes.

Don't get me started on the trailer! >

**DanStokes** · December 8, 2010, 09:14 AM

Re: I don't want to be THAT GUY, but.....

I had pretty good luck with charging. Most folks back away when the price exceeds "free". Those who paid were happy to do so. Never though of the lawsuit thing but maybe Buickguy will chime in - does it matter if you charge or not as long as the "crime" happens on your property? I have no clue.

Something I did learn - most folks figure that whet you provide is worth what you charge for it. If you charge nothing, that's how much they think it's worth and they treat you accordingly. If someone really didn't have the cash I'd try to figure out some way for them to pay - mowing the lawn, dog sitting, etc. I found that they valued the work much more highly and they kept a piece of their self-esteem.

Dan

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