How come no one participates any more?

[Freiburger]

Looking back on the biggest of my hot rodding heroes, it seems that they all got out there and participated in racing—and more than just that, they did LOTS of different things. Guys like Mickey Thompson, Ray Brock, Ak Miller...they ran the lakes, the drags, Baja, boat racing, Pikes Peak, La Carrera, rallyes, economy runs, and more. They did different things with different cars.

These days, it seems that the average gearhead owns one car, or one type of car (ie nothing but Chevelles, nothing but Mopars, nothing but FEs). It also seems that the average car guy is content to just drive to shows or cruise nights. If they do race, they usually ONLY drag race.

I know money is one answer. But why else is it that hot rodders are no longer racers?

[DanStokes]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

Well, SOME of the guys do. I think of Wayne Jessel, for one (one of my HEROS). Keith races, and likely will be doing some quarter mile stuff in the Disco car. And that Freiburger kid - he's coming along. And there's Bill Murphy, who DRIVES to Bonneville and Maxton and still races - hard. He's not on this site because he can't afford a computer, or the connection if he had one, but he still gets down the track (those not in the know, check the ECTA website <ecta-lsr.com> - Bill was last year's points winner).

I do what I can, given the funds.

So there are some who do, but, as you pointed out, many who don't.

Dan

[wrenchn2]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

Were they doing to help thier business adventures?

[terry russell]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

I can recall the first IROC,most of those guys would race any thing ,any time any where.Now a lot of the nasscar guys cant for contract reasons.
As for me I dont have time or funds for more than 1 or 2 but Iam working on it.
terry

[tcbnj]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

DF, looking at myself - I am in an oversubscribed lifestyle where I have good paying job (corporate office type) that requires too many hours. Why do I tolerate such a job, because I have allowed myself to have too many commitments ("nice house" which also requires higher maintenance, higher taxes, etc), "nice" family vacations, "nice" dates with the Mrs, etc.............. Basically an unconscious keeping up with the Jones to stay aloft

And for those daytime hours not at work, I am trying to play catch up with the family to avoid the "cats in the cradle" syndrome (children under 10). Doesn't leave much time for racing.

That said I expect my first "official" race this year on the PT due in large part to this site and the spirit of the long haul junkies.

That is the beauty of this site, it allows many of us who are not "hardcore" (e.g., racers) a welcome mat that's says yea you can do it, let us just tell you how in a non-pressure environment

[NigelTufnel]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

Aside from those guys multi-faceted interests I think one thing most of them had in common was that they were competitors at heart. They would've raced each other on roller blades if they'd had them back then, and then they'd design their own modifications to the blades to have an advantage so they could whoop up on each other. My point is that the partcipators in motorsports share a primary characteristic of being highly competitive by nature, so they not only did the engineering but also the driving, and the engineering was a means to the end. For folks like that winning is the most important thing.

Many of us that build hotrods today are just engineers and lack that super competitive nature, so we are more interested in the design and engineering and the actual building of the cars than in using them competitively to win. Yes we do care about the performance of our vehicles but more for the validation of our engineering efforts than as a means to whoop up on someone else. I know this does not cover it all, but I think it may be a contributing factor.

[Brad54]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

I worked my way through college for 6 years, and the only big car show I ever went to before getting out was a Goodguys show at Indy. I drove there from Toledo on Saturday morning, tracked down every magazine guy I could find, handed them a resume and said "I want your job." Then I drove back home and worked in the restaurant for the dinner shift. (Only time I ever met Baskerville, too). After college, I got a job at Mopar Muscle, got married and got the Insta-Family.
I've got a lot of friends who have done a helluva lot more racing and been on more cool adventures, but spending a couple hundred dollars and 50+ hours a season building pinewood derby cars trumps it. Catching several Braves games a year (Including Opening Day this Monday night!!!), going fishing and hunting (and all the associated costs involved)...to me, that's what's important. As much as I'd love to build a car to do Carrera, Targa Newfoundland, a Bonneville car, and get my gasser on the strip, they have to take a back seat to getting Boy Wonder's 4-wheeler back in the woods. I could have less house and therefor more cars, but it was important to me that he has a woods to play in, with a stream running through it to slog through.
But I still get to do some pretty damn cool stuff that ISN'T from being on the job...The Suburban has all been off the books, including the road trip with Boy Wonder to pick it up, we cruised to Maxton just to spectate, and last year we drove to Bonneville (and he learned to drive stick-shift at 12 years old...on the Salt. Who can say that?). This year we're driving the Suburban out there, stopping off at Pikes Peak on the way. As he gets older, I'll be able to ramp up more stuff. Until then, the bass fishing canoe needs a new trolling motor. And it's worth every penny of diverted gasser money. Because when he's out of the house and in college, I know he'll still want to ride shotgun with me. And THAT'S where the investment pays big dividends!

-Brad

[Brian Lohnes]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

Dave,

I'd argue that auto racing on any level (with the lone exception of LSR) has nothing to do with hot rodding, in the Thompson, Navarro, Brock model any more.

Innovation is no longer welcome and that's what those guys thrived on.

Again, with the exception of LSR, I defy you to name one other form of organized racing that has not legislated creative thinking right out the window.

Jim Thorpe was an olympic athlete that could do just about everything well. He won medals, played baseball and football, hell, he was probably a kick ass checkers player. The same can be said for our formative Hot Rod heroes. We live in a specialized world now, and that's in just about every facet of our lives.

The kings are dead.....long live the kings.

Brian

[Freiburger]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

Dave,

I'd argue that auto racing on any level (with the lone exception of LSR) has nothing to do with hot rodding, in the Thompson, Navarro, Brock model any more.

Innovation is no longer welcome and that's what those guys thrived on.

Your opinion is wrong! I agree that pro motorsports is ruined. But there's still amateur drag racing, bracket racing, Baja, autocross, open-track days, Rallyecross, Rallyesprint, 24 Hours of Lemons, local circle-track racing, sand drags, ice racing, hillclimbs, Gravelrama, Drag Week, etc, etc.

[Mopar Jim]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

I'm with tcbnj on this one. I love cars and probably should have pursued a career in the auto industry in some form, but instead I went in to public accounting and then spent 16 years at Pepsi in So Cal, South Carolina, New York, North Carolina, and then back to Nor Cal. I am currently working in the dairy industry in California's Central Valley and trying to raise a family (3 sons) while also paying a California mortgage and supporting my wife's passion, which is Quarter Horses. Its a wonder I am able to afford my 2 old Plymouths at all.

I was never a racer, but through it all I have tried to stay active in the hobby these past 34 years since I got my driver's license. I have been the President of Mopar car clubs in both South Carolina and North Carolina, I drive my cars year-round to continue to show the colors, and I am raising my kids to appreciate old cars, too. I don't have the resources to race as I don't have anywhere to work on them and can't afford to break them if I do, but that doesn't mean I don't still love them - I do!

[Freiburger]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

Tractor pulls, One Lap, Great American Race, swamp buggies, local desert racing, vintage go-kart racing, VARA, NHRA Heritage Series...I can keep going.

[bowtiemonster]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

Besides the greater expense people today are hard pressed for time, which is a shame.

[Brian Lohnes]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

Dave, your examples are good, but every one of them is broken down into specific classes of competition that regulate what you can and can't do to compete. Unlike the days of Thompson and others of his ilk, the rules are more specific than:

1.) Engine must be an automotive powerplant
2.) Wear a seatbelt

If you are seeing a lot of innovation at the bracket races, I need to come visit that track. I think it's a fruitless argument to have with regard to the whole innovation deal, but the participant thing is something different altogether.

I think too many people wait for the "right time". I can speak from experience and I know you can to, that if you continue to wait for the "right time" to do something you've always wanted to do, you will never do it. Any easy rule of thumb is, "There's never a right time, there's never enough money, and you'll never have 'enough' time." Get off your ass and do it.

Back to you chief...

Brian

[bdbowti]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

I know my buddies and i are junkies. I bracket race my wagon in the East Coast Imapala Series and all of those guys are rodders/racers. My wagon is not super fast but it is a fun family cruiser/racer. I also have a 66 Corvette that i am restoring but plan on taking it on cruises and enjoying time away from the kids with the wife in it, not parking it at some lot and sitting around waiting for a trophy. I also enjoy riding atvs and racing my buddies around the track on them. I agree with Nigel that a competitive nature is key for the drive. Hell my buddy and i were tearing the heads off my old Nova and looked at each other across the motor and instantly started a ratchet race righ there lol. The point is it takes a decent amount of money to afford all the toys then we need the time to enjoy them. Lots of money and free time don't come at the same time, at least not for our family lol. Now adays its just hard to divide up race time, family time, and money spent on toys vs needs.

[Silver68RT]

Re: How come no one participates any more?

I'd like to do more racing. Money is definitely a factor for me, so is time. I've got too many projects going, so I'm spread a little too thin. Most of my friends here aren't into cars, or they've got kids, and don't have the time to go racing, and I'm not that into going by myself. The cost of the parts I need to restore my collection of musclecars is out of control, and I can't afford to do everything I want to do. Is a 428 CJ intake really going to cost me $500? I swear when I bought the car, they were going for $50. Money ruins everything. When I had my Road Runner, I could go to a junkyard or a swap meet and get parts dirt cheap. Now it's like they're made out of gold, and I blame B-J and all those rich bastards. I liked them when they weren't worth anything, and I'd be happy if they went back to just being cool cars instead of investments.

The last few times I went to the track with my dragster, there were so many cars, I spent hours waiting around, or sitting in the staging lanes. I think I was there all day and made 2 runs. Going down the track was a lot of fun, but the rest of the time was a real drag. My friend that would go to the track with me had to move to Seattle to find a job, so I don't even know if I'll get it out this year. Maybe I'll take my Dart out for some test & tune nights. I'm also worried that if I do have some kind of accident, the medical bill could bankrupt me. Health care costs are ridiculous - I can't even imagine what Force's crash cost him for the hospital bill.

I tried autocrossing when I had my Porsche 944, and it was fun, but there was a whole lot of standing around and picking up cones for very little track time. I've got some friends that do driving schools with their Porsche's, but I haven't got anything suitable for a road course at the moment. I don't think the F-250 would do well, and the Dart's set up for straight line action.

Something like the 24 Hours of Lemons would be cool, but I haven't got anybody to go in with on something like that. I'd like to try drifting, but I don't think there's anything going on in Michigan, and I don't have a car I could use anyway. Likely, the only racing I do this year will be limited to some go karting at Kart 2 Kart.