Wind tunnel work

[KeithTurk]

I took a LONG wet ride yesterday to help out Mike Reichen and his EVO in the wind tunnel in Charlotte NC... this is Gary Eaker's A2 Hot Rod tunnel... first time users get in for 790 bucks for the first two hours after that it's 500 an hour... Sounds like a lot of money But it's some of the best money a person can spend on a race car... it's so easy to make fast simple adjustments and ultimately those changes can significantly decrease the actual HP required to accelerate the car..

I really can't address the actual changes we made yesterday as Mike was paying the bill and it's his information... But tradiationally you get to test altitude adjustments of the car along with attitude.... Hood scoops, Spoilers , air dams and so on...

It's amazing the stuff you can learn and for me personally it's the most fun I've Ever had with a car....

Keith

[L98camino]

Re: Wind tunnel work

Pretty high tech for a cat from Enterprise, Alabama..... ;D ;D

[joebogey]

Re: Wind tunnel work

Wind tunnels are amazing, the HR story DF did when they took the HR Special (CJ Special now?) in the tunnel blew me away.

[std]

Re: Wind tunnel work

The one thing I heard about aero that is always true is that it isn't intuitive. What you think is going to make a huge difference makes nothing and some seemingly insignificant thing changes everything.

We thought we broke the wind tunnel once. When they started the wind there was a serious vibration. It took 7 or 8 of us to find the problem. They were checking the fan blades, checking their computers, we were all over the car. Turned out there was a piece of duct tape under the front splitter of our Trans Am car that started flapping when they started to blow on it. A little 2" piece hanging down.

It's attention to the details that wins. Duct tape in the right place does wonders, in the wrong place and your day is ruined.

[KeithTurk]

Re: Wind tunnel work

Dave that was a perfect example of reality... I've seen some cars you can truly whittle on... and some that say... "Here I am... and you can't change me"

I've been there a pretty good bit... and love going... it's just the most fun you can have with a car... seriously... amazing stuff,...

Its only the most fun because you can't hurt stuff...

K

[std]

Re: Wind tunnel work

The last time I was there I think we did 37 model changes after lunch.

Wing height, angle, wickers, car rake, front splitters, and duct tape in specific places. I think we even did yaw with our best package.

We were trying to get our moneys worth.

[fahrenschnell]

Re: Wind tunnel work

Glad you like it. Now I need to get a car and you can help me with it. ;D

Seth

[1 fast evo 2]

Re: Wind tunnel work

Hey Keith, thanks again for all the help in the wind tunnel.
Keith was a really huge help in getting things organized and the changes made quickly and efficiently.
We learned a lot of things about the car but unfortunately the answers only brought out more questions that need to be answered.
Going to the wind tunnel was a great experience and totally worthwhile, unfortunately I found out what I suspected all along-a bread box just isn't very aerodynamic. Oh well there is always more power.

Thanks again for the help Keith.

Mike Reichen

[KeithTurk]

Re: Wind tunnel work

First off thanks for the opportunity... it's always good to have someone who's been there before get things flowing...Wish I'd been there earlier... but the rain just slowed me down a bit...

Oh and Hey Mike... isn't your Tag line supposed to have something about WINNER SUPER STREET 2008 HOT ROD TOP SPEED CHALLANGE in it?

Keith

[Fordplay0621]

Re: Wind tunnel work

Keith,

1. What are some of the different Processes that you have to go through while setting up a Car in the Tunnel?
2. Are you actually in the Tunnel while Testing is going on?
3. Do you have to shut down everytime to do a Tweek?
4. How much time is actually used up doing the Mods?

I've been in a Run Cell for Jet Engines, Doing FOD out on F14 and Helicopter Engines. Some of the best Fun anyone can have. I'd like to hear more about some of the Camaro's Testing. Obviously, we can see the Outcome, just like to hear more of how you got it to the state that it is in now. The major stumbling blocks and how you got pass them.

This stuff sounds interesting as Hell. And I thrive on this kind of imformation. The Kia is set for a really good going over. Looking at a Total Aero Mod, I do not have the Funding for a Wind Tunnel visit, so I'm looking at what works for others trying to find out a system. Knowing that all Cars are Different, there has to be a few things that are Common. Mostly the Front Air Dam setup. I have seen so many different setups and some obviously look like they really do not provide any advantange. So I'm stuck looking at what others have done to similiar body styles that have shown to be successful and that are close to what I have to work with.

[KeithTurk]

Re: Wind tunnel work

If all you have to do is take something off it's fairly easy to make changes... so you start out in your max drag configuration and work backwards from there...

In A2 the tunnel was designed for guys like us... who don't have the funding of Ford or GM... it's fairly quick in it's ability to start and stop... it takes about 5 minutes to blow the wind over the car and take measurements. You can immediately gain access to the tunnel as soon as the test is over... so basically you can run a max of around 7-10 tests in an hour... this is assuming that you can reach inside the car.. adjust an airbag to a preset pressure adjustment and get out of the tunnel to start the next test...

The key is to plan the tests.. to know exactly what you want to accomplish... it's an incredible learning experience and the guys there will be more then willing to help you... but remember chatting takes time... and Data can only be gained with wind going over the car... so the guy in charge needs to do the talking and the Helpers need to be making the changes to the car... so plan on taking 2-4 people with you to make the physical adjustments to the car.

Personally I like altitude adjustments best because they seem to be the most effective.... ( there's a reason an Indy car is 1/2" off the ground )... Spoiler changes are often interesting... as well as air dam stuff...

Bring lots of Hard board... 1/2" foam board , light aluminum sheet... DUCK TAPE in Massive quanity's... We'll find uses for it... oh and 2 count them TWO razor knifes... LOL

Keith

[Fordplay0621]

Re: Wind tunnel work

That all makes sense, A good plan is always better. I would have a long Meeting before any Testing started, I'd even have a few pre- made panels and stuff like that all set up for quick installs.

I like the Air Bag set up, It would definately help out when driving around town to. Get to the Track and Lower it down to Racing height. Thats where the Tunnel comes in to get the optimum ride height.

I want to know more about Front Air Dams.

Is a smooth curve best, or is an angled one better?

I'm looking at re-doing the Front Air Dam on my Car and molding it in so there are no seams. Also Flush mounting all of the blank off panels in the Grille area. Switching to adjustable Coil shocks or bagging it to get it down.

[std]

Re: Wind tunnel work

It's pretty amazing how much better you can make your car with ride height and duct tape.

Keith is right. Be prepared. Fit everything before you get there.

As you learn as you go, it's nice to have someone out in the trailer that can be fabbing stuff while you're inside making more changes.

And don't forget to study the data after you get home.

[Shearer]

Re: Wind tunnel work

And bring pants with big pockets so Keith can reach into them and give you a quick feel! :o

The wind tunnel was awesome and learned a lot from everyone there, Keith's experience there was most helpful. The a2 team was great and are a great group of people with a unbelieveable amount of collective knowledge.

[KeithTurk]

Re: Wind tunnel work

You gonna explain it? LOL Poo Poo Head..

He's got the only freaking razor knife within a hundred miles and rather then put it in the tool tray ... he sticks it in his pocket... Yeah bout the third time I had to wait for him to set something down I snagged it... Told him I was going to CUT him with it if he didn't play nice and SHARE... LOL

Keep in mind our buddy here is spending 500 bucks an hour to learn... and our job is to Make "QUICK" changes to maximize the use of his time...

Keith .... ( pretty good explaination huh?... )