What is the fascination with deep gears and compression? Another rant.

[A/Fuel]

A gear is just a lever, the bigger the gear (higher numearicaly) the more work that needs to be done to get similar results.
It doesnt get any simpler than LS7gto's comment

[Brian Lohnes]

my machinist says "gear is a substitute for horsepower ", but what does he know?

Jensen knows poop.

Referring back to stock eliminator cars, there's more than one reason a 305ci Malibu that went 18's in original trim runs 12s now and it ain't just the cam. Those cars are out of first gear by the 60' block.

Brian

[SpiderGearsMan]

403 has windowed main bearing webs

[TheSilverBuick]

It's not a question of which will go further, it's a question of which gets you there Faster.........If it takes the 3.08's a 1/3 of a mile to catch the 4.11's then the 4.11 will be faster in the 1/4 mile..........

Yeah, but that engine has to be able to turn faster. What good is having 4.11 gears if your engine can't turn faster? Conversely, what good is redlining at the 1/8th mile mark? If your running over your rpm band, what good is it? I wonder what that diesel mustang ran for gears?

[Thumpin455]

Believe me I understand the RPM thing with tiny engines, or with engines that have a power band that starts above 6500. I have a couple engines that idle about 8000 and turn 34,000 at WOT. Sure they are airplane engines but I understand smaller means more RPM to get the power.

The thing that irks me is people assuming that what works for one engine will work for any engine. There are vastly different properties at work when you have a 4.030 bore 3.48 stroke with a 7" long intake port than what works with a 4.18 bore and 4.25 stroke with a 13" intake port length. The second engine is going to be RPM limited compared to the first, and it is going to make more torque from idle to 5500 than the smaller engine makes anywhere in the RPM range.

After the first 60 ft that gear wont be helping you anymore. If you want a real world demonstration, come on up and we can take my Formula for a drive with the 4.10s, then stuff the 2.41 rear under it. The 2.41 gear with 700hp ahead of it is going to scare you and it will only need first gear to do it. Just like a blower car, if it makes enough torque you can put any gear behind it.

[Thumpin455]

It's not a question of which will go further, it's a question of which gets you there Faster.........If it takes the 3.08's a 1/3 of a mile to catch the 4.11's then the 4.11 will be faster in the 1/4 mile..........

What if the engine ahead of the 3.08s makes enough torque off idle to launch harder and be ahead of the 4.10 geared car for the entire track? Or, the case of the Maverick vs the Formula. A friend of mine who raced a Maverick with a 302 had 5.13 gears in it, my Formula had 4.10s. He could turn 6500-7000 easily, and I only had 6000 RPM to play with. He would jump ahead but by half track I had caught him and passed him. He used to look at me with a sad look on his face when I would just walk past him. His best for the Maverick was 12.80, the best for my Formula was 11.7 even though he would leave on me and had more RPM I was still faster. It would have been worse had I been running the 3.42 or 3.08 gears because then my 455 wouldnt have been done by 1000ft. That engine picked up a solid two tenths by going from 4.10 to 3.42 both with 28" tires.

You can gear it all you want, but if it isnt making any and utilizing torque its not going to be as fast as it could be. If you want to make a small engine fast, you need RPM. Big engines just need more air.

If you have to move a 4000lb vehicle on the street will you want a 4.56 gear or a 3.08 gear for driving around and best performance? I suppose with a 350 the 4.56 will be prefered, but with a 403 to 455, you are going to want the 3.08.

[Darren N.]

My buddy ran 13.0X @ 107 w/ a stock 403 short block, Comp 262H, ported iron heads, Performer intake, a Q-jet and headers. The car was an '84 Cutlass with 3.42 gears. It left the line pretty hard.

The exact same setup ran low 14's in a 4 door Delta 88 with the same diff. Quite a nice sleeper, lol.

I tend to stay away from some forums because of "resident expertise".

[Brian Lohnes]

As a point of reference, Top Fuel dragsters use 2.90 gears.

[Thumpin455]

My buddy ran 13.0X @ 107 w/ a stock 403 short block, Comp 262H, ported iron heads, Performer intake, a Q-jet and headers. The car was an '84 Cutlass with 3.42 gears. It left the line pretty hard.

The exact same setup ran low 14's in a 4 door Delta 88 with the same diff. Quite a nice sleeper, lol.

I tend to stay away from some forums because of "resident expertise".

I have a 79 Malibu at my dads farm, and a couple spare 403s laying around. We have been thinking of mating them with a 2004R and adding a cam like that. Dirt cheap and lots of fun. The best part is stuffing a BOP in a chevy.

[mike343sharpstick]

I agree with your rant! Another big factor is the Transmission you're using in ADDITION to the torque output of the motor.
6-speed manual or PowerGlide? LOL.
Now that I have the G-Force T5 with the standard WC Mustang ratios in my car, I suspect if I went to something like 3.73 gears I would make first gear completely useless.

I do like compression, as it's available HP with no additional RPM requirements, but if you want to run standard grade fuel you are totally correct.

[mike343sharpstick]

I have heard tuners I respect say about a zillion times, "more power is made in reworking the cylinder heads!", yet when internet experts start pontificating that never seems to come up.

[milner351]

I'd say gears are a replacement for TORQUE, but I digress.

Todd - keep in mind a lot of folks on other forums are regirgitating what some parking lot expert told them, not anything they've actually ever DONE.

Sure - higher numerical gears will help any vehicle accelerate faster from a stop - and not many modifications can make a car "feel faster" than a gear swap - but - what lots of folks fail to understand is how everything in a vehicle system is related - and how different the systems can be to achieve the same goal. Another reason I really miss the way Indianapolis used to be - and why I think the salt may be the last place where "thinking out of the box" is actually being put into practice.

[TheSilverBuick]

Now that I have the G-Force T5 with the standard WC Mustang ratios in my car, I suspect if I went to something like 3.73 gears I would make first gear completely useless.

Pretty much was my experience, Big Block Buick, 3.70 gears, 26" tire and a 5-speed. The engine would rocket to redline before I could even get my foot to the floor.

[oldsman71]

my mostly stock 355 in the blue olds is toast after 5000 it peaks around 4600 to 4800
it has a 3.73 gear and it is done at the quarter mile mark, I dont feel it fall off, but its done
I would bet it might be faster in the 1/4 with 3.42's. it ran a 2.1 60 ft and 15.04 to 14.90
it has alot of TQ for a mild sbc 4.11 to 4.56's would kill this car...... I guess the gears have to match
the TQ curve not just about peak HP I guess

[oldsman71]

I have a 79 Malibu at my dads farm, and a couple spare 403s laying around. We have been thinking of mating them with a 2004R and adding a cam like that. Dirt cheap and lots of fun. The best part is stuffing a BOP in a chevy.

I had an 84 regal with a stock 403 true duals, t-350, and a 2.73 posi it was running 15.20's and had traction issues on 14" tires