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Mopar Action Versus Popular Hot Rodding (Gromer v. Hunkins)

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  • #61
    So I guess if PHR was run down the same editorial road as Hot Rod, all would still be good?

    I'm with Herman on this one. I'm not sure what the end goal is here. If you think Johnny sucks at his job, come out and say it. It ain't going to hurt his feelings.

    My opinion is that if the management of the various companies that have owned PHR over the years were of the opinion Johnny was negatively driving circulation they would have hauled his ass out back and shot him (figuratively speaking) years ago.

    I guess I should feel lucky to not be obsessed with one brand or make of car, it seems to make people crazy.

    Brian
    That which you manifest is before you.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Brian Lohnes View Post
      I guess I should feel lucky to not be obsessed with one brand or make of car, it seems to make people crazy.
      Noticed that too? Doesn't matter the make even.
      Escaped on a technicality.

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      • #63
        hay I like all brands and I'm still crazy

        Comment


        • #64
          Thanks for getting me back on track.
          So, you're saying the mag with the word Popular in it's name turns out to be the least popular of the bunch? :o)

          I, on the other hand, am glad I'm not into this multibrand 'scene'. Makes life way to complicult...
          www.BigBlockMopar.com

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Brian Lohnes View Post
            So I guess if PHR was run down the same editorial road as Hot Rod, all would still be good?

            I'm with Herman on this one. I'm not sure what the end goal is here. If you think Johnny sucks at his job, come out and say it. It ain't going to hurt his feelings.

            My opinion is that if the management of the various companies that have owned PHR over the years were of the opinion Johnny was negatively driving circulation they would have hauled his ass out back and shot him (figuratively speaking) years ago.

            I guess I should feel lucky to not be obsessed with one brand or make of car, it seems to make people crazy.

            Brian
            Brian, you've overstated what I'm saying. Hunkins obviously has done a good enough job to be ahead of where Rob Kinnan is today. And he's been around the industry for nearly twenty years. So I'm not saying he "sucks." The truth is a tad more complex than such a "Manichaean" conclusion.

            What I am saying is that:

            1. PHR is in obvious circulation decline.

            2. PHR no longer adequately serves the grassroots "base" of the hobby or provides sufficient balanced coverage, which I contend is partly responsible for the sales declines. (obviously that's an opinion)

            3. Much of the decline has occurred on Hunkins' watch, suggesting at least some correlation between the declines and what Hunkins is putting in the magazine.

            4. His comments here about "standards," etc. could be interpreted as indicating a certain arrogance and defensiveness of his "exclusive" editorial direction.

            Brian, I frankly don't care if you think I'm "crazy." My arguments stand or fail on their own internal logic and use of available facts. I would point out that this controversy WAS NOT over the brand you assert I'm "obsessed" with, so your "slam" really isn't very logical.

            I also realize that these people at SIM are your friends and potential freelance article customers, so you've got to "politic" them some. That, arguably, makes you a little less than objective. I also realize you probably feel the need to "referee" discussions on this site when they affect "traffic-driving" celebs like Mr. Hunkins.

            Personally, I could care less about Gromer or Hunkins. I do think that Mr. Gromer has a point to which Mr. Hunkins has, so far, weakly responded (arrogantly running down MA isn't a substantive response). And if PHR eventually fails, I'm sure that SIM will send me something else to fill out the subscription commitment. But what I do care about is the truth.

            I'm also sophisticated enough to assume that SIM's predecessors intentionally repurposed and "narrowcasted" PHR into a niche book so that it wouldn't directly compete with HRM or CC. That being said, if the niche is declining, perhaps it's time for a serious rethink. I'm not seeing the objectivity in Mr. Hunkins for such a tough task.

            I don't have a beef with Pro-Touring per se, but when former reader after former reader complains that PHR is "out of touch" and not "real world" enough, some hard scrutiny is in order. Sorry if you think that's "crazy."

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            • #66
              Couple things --

              My assertion about craziness was generalized, not directed at you. More along the line of people being pissed about not seeing enough of their "favorites" when they pick up a magazine. It is never a thought that has crossed my mind, so it is hard for me to get into that head space.

              Pretty sure both me and Chad are on a list with a black mark next to our names when it comes to freelancing for SIM. There are some people there in high places that really dislike this place and what we do. Johnny is not my friend. I have met him exactly zero times. I respect his career and accomplishments, that's about as far as that goes.

              I still have no real clue where this is heading, so I'm tapping out.

              Brian
              That which you manifest is before you.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by TheSilverBuick View Post
                Isn't that the different magazine's buisness model though? A mag for the high end stuff (PHR), a mag closer to the everyday man (HR), and a mag for the broke bottom scrapers that work with what they have (CC)? That's my take on it anyways, the reason Johnny is picky is because he is suppose(?) to be, looking for the best. And as beaten down earlier in this thread, it seems decently porportional to original sales and slightly modified by restoration numbers of the vehicle makes/models.
                Frankly Randall, PHR's coverage probably isn't really "sales proportional." For example, for a majority of the past 48 years, Ford's Mustang outsold Chevrolet's Camaro (only during brief periods, such as during the Mustang II debacle, did Chevy win) Moreover, GM never outsold Ford and Chrysler 10:1 or even 5:1. Those facts wouldn't be reflected in PHR's editorial content.

                Most certainly, Hunkins is right that GM is currently dominating the numbers in the insular"high end" world of domestic Pro Touring. And if that's what he's going to report on, then PHR really isn't much of a multi-brand title anymore. Moreover,

                1. There's lots of other "high end" stuff other than Pro touring (so PHR's not just a "high end" magazine. It's a narrowly-focused high-end magazine)

                2. A narrow focus on a very narrow segment will obviously hurt sales . . . and that may very well be SIM's strategic vision for PHR. It's their book . . . they can ruin it if they want.

                3. Hunkins has, thus far, not done a very compelling job of explaining it or managing the expectations of long-time readers who still want something like the old "Pop Rod." (of course if Hunkins tells the unvarnished truth . . . PHR is now a predominantly GM-based pro-built, Pro-Touring magazine, there are quite a few "everyday men" who will ultimately check out).

                4. I still contend that the appeal of multi-brand titles is a balanced representation of the brands and providing something of interest to a wider base of readers.

                Obviously, I'm not privy to SIM's internal strategy for "Pop Rod." But I started reading it in the early 1970s and I can see that it is in profound decline.


                Isn't it like asking for a cadillac at a cavilier's price? The average man still wants to see the expensive car even when they can't afford it.
                They sell a whole lot more entry-level cars than Cadillacs. Sure, some readers want the fantasy of unlimited budget pro builds. But the smart editor knows the optimal balance. Declining circulation suggests that the balance between fantasy and reality in "POP ROD" isn't optimal
                Last edited by 38P; October 26, 2011, 08:08 AM.

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                • #68
                  Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic... that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and I'd have produced that key if they hadn't of pulled the Caine out of action. I, I, I know now they were only trying to protect some fellow officers...
                  -dulcich

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    so what are the subscription numbers for Mopar Action? Comparing the iconic magazine to PHR isn't a comparison which will give any meaningful data. Personally, I don't subscribe to PHR for the same reason as HR; and if I had to chose, I'd pick HR every time because it's the icon....

                    Also, I love it when a small magazine picks on a larger one - because adjust a few articles and the larger magazine could put a large hole in the smaller magazine's subscription base.
                    Last edited by SuperBuickGuy; October 26, 2011, 08:14 AM.
                    Doing it all wrong since 1966

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Brian Lohnes View Post
                      Couple things --

                      My assertion about craziness was generalized, not directed at you. More along the line of people being pissed about not seeing enough of their "favorites" when they pick up a magazine. It is never a thought that has crossed my mind, so it is hard for me to get into that head space.


                      Pretty sure both me and Chad are on a list with a black mark next to our names when it comes to freelancing for SIM. There are some people there in high places that really dislike this place and what we do. Johnny is not my friend. I have met him exactly zero times. I respect his career and accomplishments, that's about as far as that goes.

                      I still have no real clue where this is heading, so I'm tapping out.

                      Brian
                      I stand corrected. Sorry that your freelance opportunities are dead (for the time being). As you know, I enjoyed your articles in HRM. I also assumed that you knew all the major editorial players at SIM. I guess the world's not as small as I thought.

                      I don't disrespect Hunkins. I just don't agree with everything he writes or puts in PHR. And I'm really ticked by all the "hero worship" by others in this thread.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Speedzzter.blogspot View Post
                        They sell a whole lot more entry-level cars than Cadillacs. Sure, some readers want the fantasy of unlimited budget pro builds. But the smart editor knows the optimal balance. Declining circulation suggests that the balance between fantasy and reality in "POP ROD" isn't optimal
                        I can agree with you here. My guess is this is more closely economy driven. People have scaled back, and they are going to start with what's most out of reach for them, and that's coverage on cars most out of reach for them.
                        Escaped on a technicality.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by dulcich View Post
                          Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic... that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and I'd have produced that key if they hadn't of pulled the Caine out of action. I, I, I know now they were only trying to protect some fellow officers...
                          -dulcich
                          Nice reference to a great film, Dulcich.

                          Now try your hand at a SUBSTANTIVE RESPONSE!

                          BTW, I'm one of the "crazies" who won't buy an issue of Enginemasters if you forget to put a hot enough Ford build or turbo story in it.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Wow, alot happens overnight...

                            After reading some of this today I think I(we) have been called a name or two, and someone has been accused of personal attacks. It is exhausting to decipher so much data and wordiness, sigh, well as I see it this whole thread is a personal attack.

                            I like Johnny he is a very nice man. I consider him a friend. Not really Hero Worship.

                            To me, and I am not a "car guy", looking at any average car show over the past 25 years that I have been to, the most cars there were Chevy's then Fords then Mopars, then the wierdy stuff, so maybe Popular Hot Rodding has the ratio correct.

                            Either way can anyone tell me how to get my neighbors horrid yappy dog to stop barking?
                            Last edited by LORENSWIFE; October 26, 2011, 08:24 AM.
                            That awkward moment when you realize it IS your circus and those ARE your monkeys!

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by SuperBuickGuy View Post
                              so what are the subscription numbers for Mopar Action? Comparing the iconic magazine to PHR isn't a comparison which will give any meaningful data. Personally, I don't subscribe to PHR for the same reason as HR; and if I had to chose, I'd pick HR every time because it's the icon....

                              Also, I love it when a small magazine picks on a larger one - because adjust a few articles and the larger magazine could put a large hole in the smaller magazine's subscription base.
                              The MA numbers were not readilly available. MA apparently reports its PAID CIRC in the issue that goes on sale December 27, 2011 (which would be the "April 2012" issue)

                              Most certainly HRM's bigger base has something to do with its "icon" status. But that's not sufficient to explain the percentage declines. A much higher percentage of customers quit PHR than HRM over the same time period.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by LORENSWIFE View Post
                                Either way can anyone tell me how to get my neighbors horrid yappy dog to stop barking?
                                Feed it a Ford
                                Escaped on a technicality.

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