EFI costs Horsepower ..The UNRestrtor Plate ..15/16ths

[JeffMcKC]

Forget the chassis dyno, lets see what it does at the track.......or are we back to racing dyno's again.............

And why would you need someone else to tune the carb??.....Are you saying you wouldn't be able to do it??

TC really??? I think it would be much more fun and enlightening to have one of you cut and paste guy try to tune it. I dont think I would have a issue at all. Once we have it tuned on the dyno there is a track just down the street we can easily swap out and try it there too.

Next reason why you wont pony up please?

[JeffMcKC]

How big(cfm) were the carbs?? and how big were the TB's that you replaced them with??

It's the same with Nascar, the carbs were 830cfm, does the EFI use a 830cfrm throttle body??

Though I do understand you can fit more air through a hole when there is no fuel taking up room.........

Theres a plate under both TC

[JeffMcKC]

ya engineer me up a beer plowboy
oh wait , you need a DEGREE to say engineer
two punks

Two Punks that do

One Punk with no Clue sitting on the couch eating chips

[nesabo]

Okay, okay. While entertaining, you monkeys are never going to agree. So I, the all powerful, grand poobahhh of BangShift, do hereby proclaim....(as a guy who has probably had more time on a dyno than all but a couple of you), that BOTH EFI and Carbs can and do make big power.

I happen to hang out with some of the best carb tuners out there, while standing right next to some of the best EFI tuners out there as well. They both work. And they work well. But, there are some things that EFI can do that you will NEVER be able to do with a Carb. It is just a fact. So, for driveability, target AFRs, etc, the EFI will usually be the king while still making the same or similar peak numbers. With that said, I would gladly drive a carb equipped car every day. You can very easily walk out to your driveway, pump the pedal twice, and fire up a carbed car and drive off to work. Yes, a PROPERLY TUNED EFI setup will do this better in a lot of cases, but people with carbs certainly didn't spend every morning working on their junk before going to work in 1970, or 1950 for that matter.

Spidey, your a dick. I love you for it, but you are. Own it. I'm an asshole and own it, so you can too.

Scott, you are the biggest torch carrying EFI ambassador ever, and you are passionate about it, and that makes you an egotistical dick to a lot of people.

Again, it is what it is. I dig both of you and love that you guys go round and round about this stuff, but know when to say when. I really want to get all of you guys together in person and just sit around talking about all this stuff. It would be a riot!

Carry on. Don't call anyone gay or a dick or an asshole. It's not nice.

Preach it REV!!

[SpiderGearsMan]

ha shows what you know ..I don't even have a couch ...

[JeffMcKC]

Okay, okay. While entertaining, you monkeys are never going to agree. So I, the all powerful, grand poobahhh of BangShift, do hereby proclaim....(as a guy who has probably had more time on a dyno than all but a couple of you), that BOTH EFI and Carbs can and do make big power.

I happen to hang out with some of the best carb tuners out there, while standing right next to some of the best EFI tuners out there as well. They both work. And they work well. But, there are some things that EFI can do that you will NEVER be able to do with a Carb. It is just a fact. So, for driveability, target AFRs, etc, the EFI will usually be the king while still making the same or similar peak numbers. With that said, I would gladly drive a carb equipped car every day. You can very easily walk out to your driveway, pump the pedal twice, and fire up a carbed car and drive off to work. Yes, a PROPERLY TUNED EFI setup will do this better in a lot of cases, but people with carbs certainly didn't spend every morning working on their junk before going to work in 1970, or 1950 for that matter.
Spidey, your a dick. I love you for it, but you are. Own it. I'm an asshole and own it, so you can too.

Scott, you are the biggest torch carrying EFI ambassador ever, and you are passionate about it, and that makes you an egotistical dick to a lot of people.

Again, it is what it is. I dig both of you and love that you guys go round and round about this stuff, but know when to say when. I really want to get all of you guys together in person and just sit around talking about all this stuff. It would be a riot!

Carry on. Don't call anyone gay or a dick or an asshole. It's not nice.

Chad that was the Days you where lucky if it started below 30 degrees and got it tuned up twice a year with plugs and points. Got 13 MPG and 75,000 miles out of a engine before it was smoking like crazy and worn out from washing the cylinder walls out of it because the choke pull off went bad or what ever else.

[SpiderGearsMan]

the headquarters of borrowed dynos inc

[JeffMcKC]

Wheres your Nova

Thought you did not have a couch?

[TC]

Theres a plate under both TC

Only on the big tracks, the short tracks don't use a restrictor......

And it's really apple to oranges, since they "increased" the size of the restrictor plate holes.....Though if they did use the same size holes as the carbs used, I could still see a slight gain with the EFI since your not trying to squeeze fuel through the holes along with the air like a carb has to do........

[Barry Donovan]

wow. this stuff is still arguing.
the passion!

if to really have the same engine with both. and both from the factory..one as injected, one as carbed...

the babble stops.

one is pulse width dependent. one relies on draft. injection cams even kick a pulse back to make the giant intake look manlier than it is not.

if to add to opinion without insult.. I like injection for a cold start air fuel mix, then it can go back to the choppy human faking robot dance(hell).

locally, even a spewing dump site makes a tragedy.

EFI literally has more glory in the sunshine...where the races are.

I say no more. Work a long unpredictable day, the carb is right there...and always will be.

[dieselgeek]

I could still see a slight gain with the EFI since your not trying to squeeze fuel through the holes along with the air like a carb has to do........

... and there you have it.

I suggest Chad put together a contest where an EFI guy battles a carb guy on the same engine on the dyno (it's more practical than track testing). I vote that Randal gets to be the EFI guy, as everyone seems to think I'm some kind of EFI Ringer (guys, I tuned my first EFI engine in 2004!!! never touched EFI before that, and only rebuilt a carb on my ATV prior to that).

I'd trust Chad to put something together, do it at Westech, see what happens?

[BangShiftChad]

ha shows what you know ..I don't even have a couch ...

Now that is funny!

[JeffMcKC]

I thought that was a Picture of it, and I was looking for the TV you watch Nascar while your on it.

the headquarters of borrowed cut and paste inc

[dieselgeek]

the headquarters of borrowed dynos inc

Don't bitch to me about the economy, I'm losing my job in a few weeks and will probably be stepping down to something not too far from that!!!


But f*ck it, I'll be the baddest EFI-tuning homeless guy you'll ever meet!!!!!!!!!!!

[CDMBill]

IF, we could have a well reasoned discussion on the ever recurring carb vs. EFI discussion we all might learn something.

The implied premise of the original post was that an increase in restrictor plate size had been approved by NASCAR to keep speeds up to the previus years' standard. The availble cited resources in this thread, all two of them, seem to refute that premise as teams are hitting 204 MPH average in testing vs. last years' 186 MPH top qualifying speed. I don't know what restrictor plate size was used in 2011 for the Daytona 500.

From what I can gather this huge increase represents a policy change by NASCAR to play off more HP against a different aero package and a bunch of other changes to make for better, safer racing as they react to falling attendance and viewers.

Does anybody know what the engine changes are in terms of airflow and other factors along with the the aero and suspension chnages. There doesn't seem to be any way to even get to the essential premise of all this without knowing these things.

There has been similar noise about NHRA Pro Stock going to EFI, but I do not know the if/when of it. Given NHRA seems to like slow incremental imorovements so they can tout new records for ET and speed it seems certain that the cars will be quicker/faster when the change occurs for that reason alone.

In the mean time does anyone have enough confirm spec sheet data to tell how many heads up classes at Drag Week were won by EFI vs. Carbed cars? I think the split was about 50/50.