EFI costs Horsepower ..The UNRestrtor Plate ..15/16ths

[Beagle]

How about we do it MY way, you can bring any car you tuned, then we'll have a challenge?? (now, do you see how queer your offer really is? How about a Dance Revolution challenge or maybe Wii Bowling??)

Scott, you can stop with the derogatory homosexual references - it's offensive to many.

I didn't think you would actually build a car, while you take the opportunity to bash other people who do. You've made my point for me.

[JeffMcKC]

How about we do it MY way, you can bring any car you tuned, then we'll have a challenge?? (now, do you see how queer your offer really is? How about a Dance Revolution challenge or maybe Wii Bowling??)

I tell you guys what, I will offer my car and have Geek tune the EFI, with the single four top on the Tunnel ram, then pull the Throttle body off and let anyone here put a carb on that they wish to tune it has a 4500 top. Put up or shut up time guys I am sure we have a guy with a Mustang Chassis dyno that we can use.

[min301]

There are several in the Lansing, Michigan area.

[A/Fuel]

If I could only find my missing check ball......

[JeffMcKC]

If I could only find my missing check ball......

You wont need it, ask some of the guys here. LOL

[dieselgeek]

The only reason the cars are going faster is because the EFI restrictor plate holes are bigger compared to the restrictor plate holes that the carbs were allowed to use........For the average Joe that doesn't know about engines it makes EFI look glorious......I would still like to see a Carb vs EFI Nascar race.........

All due respect, you have to be pretty crazy to think a carb will run evenly with EFI in a situation where both are "optimized" (not just plunking down the carb OR efi, but instead developing the engine around them). The first dead giveaway is that the carb requires vacuum - that means "lower pressure air" and also "less oxygen in the manifold" - under all running conditions. The air restriction devices hanging in the incoming air charge versus a completely open passage for EFI will tell you before the engines even fire, who's going to win.

We have a similar discussion going on on Speedtalk.com. I'm trying to be a little more respectful over there because guys like Dave Braswell are arguing for carburetors... as politely as I could tell him, I had to remind him that we removed two Braswell carbs (the tuning cost alone on these cost nearly TRIPLE what we spent on a FAST-XFI system to replace them) from Lee Sicilio's #1001 Daytona Charger - and, changing nothing else except setting a 12.5:1 AFR at wide open and running the exact same ignition timing, our car went something like 12 or 13mph FASTER. We even used the exact same intake manifold.

I realize it's a tough pill to swallow for guys who have been using and loving their carburetors for decades, and by no means do I expect carbs to disappear - but at some point the carb fans need to step out of La La land and get with the program.

[SpiderGearsMan]

borrowing dynos ..marketing on message boards

[dieselgeek]

I didn't think you would actually build a car, while you take the opportunity to bash other people who do. You've made my point for me.

My apologies for offending your sexuality, you're right - it was rude :-)


Meanwhile, do you not realize the utter stupidity of you making up some lame contest with your own lame rules? I don't build project cars, I don't have one - just like YOU don't tune EFI professionally. Thus my point about the "queerness" (look up the definition of the word, it's not just for homosexuals) of your totally lame request. LIke i said, you'd have a better chance challenging me to a Dance Dance Revolution contest because I don't compete at "car building." Meanwhile, where is YOUR car - or YOUR efi????

[JeffMcKC]

Its a chance to prove your point to everyone, and not be a cut and Paste guy, step up or step back, this is where Farmville meets the Real World

[SpiderGearsMan]

ya engineer me up a beer plowboy
oh wait , you need a DEGREE to say engineer
two punks

[dieselgeek]

ya engineer me up a beer plowboy
oh wait , you need a DEGREE to say engineer
two punks

it's all in good fun Spidey. Don't take it personally.

[TC]

I tell you guys what, I will offer my car and have Geek tune the EFI, with the single four top on the Tunnel ram, then pull the Throttle body off and let anyone here put a carb on that they wish to tune it has a 4500 top. Put up or shut up time guys I am sure we have a guy with a Mustang Chassis dyno that we can use.

Forget the chassis dyno, lets see what it does at the track.......or are we back to racing dyno's again.............

And why would you need someone else to tune the carb??.....Are you saying you wouldn't be able to do it??

[SpiderGearsMan]

guess some people haven't priced out health insurance lately ..or the fact that business in down 70 percent from 4 years ago ..ya hot rodding makes sense when half the houses in town have been foreclosed ..ya .. a little disposable income

[BangShiftChad]

Okay, okay. While entertaining, you monkeys are never going to agree. So I, the all powerful, grand poobahhh of BangShift, do hereby proclaim....(as a guy who has probably had more time on a dyno than all but a couple of you), that BOTH EFI and Carbs can and do make big power.

I happen to hang out with some of the best carb tuners out there, while standing right next to some of the best EFI tuners out there as well. They both work. And they work well. But, there are some things that EFI can do that you will NEVER be able to do with a Carb. It is just a fact. So, for driveability, target AFRs, etc, the EFI will usually be the king while still making the same or similar peak numbers. With that said, I would gladly drive a carb equipped car every day. You can very easily walk out to your driveway, pump the pedal twice, and fire up a carbed car and drive off to work. Yes, a PROPERLY TUNED EFI setup will do this better in a lot of cases, but people with carbs certainly didn't spend every morning working on their junk before going to work in 1970, or 1950 for that matter.

Spidey, your a dick. I love you for it, but you are. Own it. I'm an asshole and own it, so you can too.

Scott, you are the biggest torch carrying EFI ambassador ever, and you are passionate about it, and that makes you an egotistical dick to a lot of people.

Again, it is what it is. I dig both of you and love that you guys go round and round about this stuff, but know when to say when. I really want to get all of you guys together in person and just sit around talking about all this stuff. It would be a riot!

Carry on. Don't call anyone gay or a dick or an asshole. It's not nice.

[TC]

All due respect, you have to be pretty crazy to think a carb will run evenly with EFI in a situation where both are "optimized" (not just plunking down the carb OR efi, but instead developing the engine around them). The first dead giveaway is that the carb requires vacuum - that means "lower pressure air" and also "less oxygen in the manifold" - under all running conditions. The air restriction devices hanging in the incoming air charge versus a completely open passage for EFI will tell you before the engines even fire, who's going to win.

We have a similar discussion going on on Speedtalk.com. I'm trying to be a little more respectful over there because guys like Dave Braswell are arguing for carburetors... as politely as I could tell him, I had to remind him that we removed two Braswell carbs (the tuning cost alone on these cost nearly TRIPLE what we spent on a FAST-XFI system to replace them) from Lee Sicilio's #1001 Daytona Charger - and, changing nothing else except setting a 12.5:1 AFR at wide open and running the exact same ignition timing, our car went something like 12 or 13mph FASTER. We even used the exact same intake manifold.

I realize it's a tough pill to swallow for guys who have been using and loving their carburetors for decades, and by no means do I expect carbs to disappear - but at some point the carb fans need to step out of La La land and get with the program.

How big(cfm) were the carbs?? and how big were the TB's that you replaced them with??

It's the same with Nascar, the carbs were 830cfm, does the EFI use a 830cfrm throttle body??

Though I do understand you can fit more air through a hole when there is no fuel taking up room.........