Indoor Kart'n.....

[dieselgeek]

Oh Really??..... The Boss 302 Laguna Seca Mustang is 400lbs lighter than the ZL1 Camaro, but the Camaro was able to do the road course faster by 2.5 seconds than the Mustang could..... This was attributed to the Camaro being able to carry higher speed through the corners...........

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...2_laguna_seca/

not even close to a valid comparison. NO offense but, you're missing the point and you are also wrong when you say "heavier kart is faster around the course" - that's not a guess, it's a definite fact. But you can't compare apples to oranges and claim the win - it takes a little more than that Alex :-)

[TC]

not even close to a valid comparison. NO offense but, you're missing the point and you are also wrong when you say "heavier kart is faster around the course" - that's not a guess, it's a definite fact. But you can't compare apples to oranges and claim the win - it takes a little more than that Alex :-)

I'm not claiming the win, I agree that the lighter car will 99% of the time be faster, the acceleration out of the corners is where those little bastards would pull me....... and I think in the areas where I did pull on them, I was just willing to go faster into the corners, basically I had more guts to take the car at full speed and slam it through the corner, which on some corners worked real good for me, where on others like the hairpins it cost me time by sliding out...........I need to get my older kid to go next time, he needs a good ass whoop'n.........The little F'er is 13 and already 6 foot tall!!!!

[JeffMcKC]

Oh Really??..... The Boss 302 Laguna Seca Mustang is 400lbs lighter than the ZL1 Camaro, but the Camaro was able to do the road course faster by 2.5 seconds than the Mustang could..... This was attributed to the Camaro being able to carry higher speed through the corners...........

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...2_laguna_seca/

So what your Saying is a Komatzu HM400-2 would be even Faster TC

[Brian Lohnes]

Colin Chapman lived by this quote and managed to win in virtually every arena he constructed a car for. (Of course several of his drivers died at the helm of Lotus race cars, probably due to the same quote)

"Simplify, then add lightness."

[TC]

So what your Saying is a Komatzu HM400-2 would be even Faster TC

Center of gravity is to high, tow much side wall on the tires.......

[JeffMcKC]

Colin Chapman lived by this quote and managed to win in virtually every arena he constructed a car for. (Of course several of his drivers died at the helm of Lotus race cars, probably due to the same quote)

"Simplify, then add lightness."

He was the man! He thought a car was over built if it did not fall apart as it crossed the finish line.


The rest of you guys are still not understanding CG and unsprung weights in a Kart its 100% unsprung weight, it binds the axle bearings its crazy how many ways weight will kill a Kart and its nothing like a car its way worse.

[JeffMcKC]

Center of gravity is to high, tow much side wall on the tires.......

Now your getting there TC, and the unsprung weight of a taller guy with more weight raised up, does what with unsprung weight to the inside tires as a sharp turn is made?? and it will roll over the outside tires and make a lip of less surface area which wil lesson the contact patch of the tires

[dieselgeek]

I'm not claiming the win, I agree that the lighter car will 99% of the time be faster, the acceleration out of the corners is where those little bastards would pull me....... and I think in the areas where I did pull on them, I was just willing to go faster into the corners, basically I had more guts to take the car at full speed and slam it through the corner, which on some corners worked real good for me, where on others like the hairpins it cost me time by sliding out...........I need to get my older kid to go next time, he needs a good ass whoop'n.........The little F'er is 13 and already 6 foot tall!!!!

I think we agree... see Brian's quote. That's where I am coming from. I totally believe you can outdrive the punks on the course, and I think that despite your extra ballast, the result is simply "better driving."

[JeffMcKC]

Objects at rest tend to stay at rest.

Indy cars are a poor example they have both down force and more power than they know what to do with.

A sit up Kart the center of Gravity is higher with the added weight which makes it want to turn over, the added traction is used up as the weight wants to go straight not turn and a skid pad will bear that out with understeer issues from the weight. Light weight and a balanced kart with drivers skill will win out every time. A driver that understands how a Kart works is work a lot and maybe how you won. TC if the track that you go to has more of one turn than the other then you can if its a right hand dominate track pick the front tires up one at a time go from Kart to Kart find the one with the heavy right front tire. We used to tweek frames this way all the time till I built a Kart with bearings spacers and heims to adjust camber it it. I had because of my height/weight wheelbase % and I tried everything, a huge understeer problem. ( I use the Mark Donahue Method of driving)

I still have 2 Karts Mine is over 7 foot long and a Komet K-88 which runs 18,000 rpm and over 125 MPH we raced on 2 to 3 mile long tracks back then. The Open Karts ran on Alky, Nitro Benzine and Acetone to even the burn. The Stock appearing Karts ran on the lightest gas we could buy then added Nitro benzine to bring the weight up, it was fine till they caught on and started water checking us.........

Been there got the Tee Shirt

[Brian Lohnes]

Another example -

I announced a karting event down at the PRI show, it was an industry karting challenge (not the full zoot one at the show with the pro racers). There were some very talented racers there, Evan Smith, Cam Evans (former national karting champ), John Hotchkis, etc. There was also a kid named Zack who is an Andretti development driver. He weighed less than my left leg.

Evan Smith was the only guy close to this kid and he was a few tenths off in lap time. Cam Evans is a large man (big and tall not round) and while it appeared all three men were working the same line, the little guy had the advantage.

I would say though, that unless you are at the top competitive levels of your genre (karting, open wheel, stock cars) the talent factor plays as much a role as the equipment. In a kart, conservation of momentum is incredibly important. I think that in those karts, Smith, Evans and Zack were about equal on their attack of the course, but the lighter guy got around quicker.

Of course I wasn't allowed to really show 'em how it was done. HA!

[JeffMcKC]

^^^^^ Thats it in a Nut shell

Talent will help a lot when a turn is involved. Now Shifter Karts are way different even yet

[storm king]

Back when the Performance Racing Industry trade show was in INdy, we'd go every year. Not amusement park karts, real race karts. It was a blast! Now that the show's in Orlando, all they have is a "celebrity" race. Sucks...

[ls7gto]

Colin Chapman lived by this quote and managed to win in virtually every arena he constructed a car for. (Of course several of his drivers died at the helm of Lotus race cars, probably due to the same quote)

"Simplify, then add lightness."

Brian, Andy Jensen quoted that to me. He also said "remove everything that doesn't make it go fast....including the Driver." ( We were discussing my shifting ability! )