Bench Race / Pipe Dream

[Russell]

So I was thinking if I could have (or build) everything I wanted in a DD car what would it have. Do you think its possible? What parts / driveline / chassie would you use?

Requirements:
V8 (with at least 250 hp 300ftlb)
Manual trans
Rear wheel drive
Heat,A/C, Radio
40 mpg

If a major motor swap is in order it would be better if the chassie is kept to 1995 or older due to OBDII emission test required for newer vehicles. For this to even have a snow ball's chance in a hot place, parts should be easily found on Craigslist, Ebay or Junk Yard. Its my pipe dream, so can you keep the budget under 5k?

[A/Fuel]

I don't know about the 40mpg, but it sounds like you are discribing a 90's 5.0 mustang.

[SpiderGearsMan]

would not be a lame ford

[Russell]

That would work, I have one (well an 89) I dont know how to make it get 40 mpg, how much effeceny are they gaining with the displacement on Demand?

[A/Fuel]

would not be a lame ford

Okay, how about a corvette then.

[SpiderGearsMan]

ya know ..ford won the daytona 500 hahaha
how about an rx8 with LSX power ?

[Beagle]

That would work, I have one (well an 89) I dont know how to make it get 40 mpg, how much effeceny are they gaining with the displacement on Demand?

I think the fuel cut on decelleration is where a lot of money is. Lose weight, better aero, smaller engine, turbo. You can go 250/300 with a much smaller engine and a hairdryer. It's DOD sorta.. Driver's foot = demand. Six speed with a double OD and you can still have enough rear gear to keep it entertaining.

Bob Holmes is selling his 300hp 3.7 / six speed, if it will go 31 in a big girl modern Mustang, it might do a lot more than that in a lightened up Fox. You can probably find 1000 pounds difference between the two if you get serious. Keep the air out from under the car, skirt it, there's a pile of things you can do for aerodynamics and that will have a big to huge impact at 60+ mph.

As ugly as I think they are, a Merkur Xr4 might be a good platform to start with... or a fox with a 4bt Cummins and a lot of turbo(s). pffft. A third gen Firebird is probably the best aero of the pony cars, and they aren't terribly heavy. A 283 or 307 with a bit o boost would be a riot. Gear the crap out of it. Between the two GM's, I'm partial to the Camaro's looks, but I think the Firebird will edge it out on aero.

[milner351]

Modern EFI without question, low rolling resistance tires - narrow ones at that, underbody shields and highway gears.

Tough to get anywhere close to 40mpg with an old school V8.

The mustang V6 powertrain would be a great start - but that shoots the $5k budget.

I would think an SVO like Bob's would be a good starting point, or a Mark 8 on a diet they have excellent aero from the factory.

Come to think of it the Mark 8 already has the huge by large engine bay - put the '11 mustang v6/6 speed into that with 3.08ish gears and you'll be well on your way.

[Dan Barlow]

I think a body lighter than a mustang would be needed. So yeah I agree in the Rx8 / Rx7 body. I would go with the lighter LS7 / T56. This baby is going to have to run most the time at just about 1000 rpm, going to have to use torque most of the time. Now you have to gear the rear accordingly. Probably something in the mid 2's.

[Beagle]

ya know ..ford won the daytona 500 hahaha
how about an rx8 with LSX power ?

First gen Rx7 with a 4.8
911 Renegade Hybrid
240sx LSx
Saturn V rocket on a VW

[Beagle]

Okay, how about a corvette then.

hypermile behavior / mods with a c5 and it might go 40 stock. I would not be surprised.

[SuperBuickGuy]

That's a tough one - hypothetically speaking, however, I suppose I'd try to find a small, two seat sports car (like a Fiat Spider), and put a super efficient v6 in it, one that gets 30 mpg in a 4200 lb car... like, maybe a Cadillac/Camaro 3.6l VVT motor. To boost the efficiency, I'd probably put a turbo (or maybe even two if I'm a glutton for punishment), and use a good computer... maybe like a MS3x. For transmissions, I'd use a 6 speed - and while I know those are rare, I found out that it is the same transmission as is in a 2005 up Toyota Tacoma (same bellhousing and everything) - those aren't as rare.

math (thanks Stuntbusters).... for every 100 lbs, you lose you gain .1 mpg (.1%). Thus 2200 x .001 = 22. 22 + 30 = 52 mpg expected.

Of course, that's all hypothetically speaking... of course, IMO 40 mpg is low hanging fruit, that combo should get at least 50 mpg, and maybe even higher.

Perhaps I'd even name that project CTS Spider (hypothetically speaking, that is)

for ultimate mpg gain - find an Austin Healy aluminum body car (that is NOT a cheap route)

[A/Fuel]

hypermile behavior / mods with a c5 and it might go 40 stock. I would not be surprised.

I was just trying to make spidy smile....
Serriosly though, what v-8's can get close to 40 mpg right now?

[Bob Holmes]

Thanks for the plug, Beags!!

I've thought about this idea a lot. My thought process is bounded by:

Gotta be lightweight
Power has to be on demand.

Given all the Mustang parts I have rotting away, my tentative solution is:

LoCost homebuilt chassis and body. I'm thinking I could get the car down to less than 1,500 lbs.
Mustang running gear, with the 2.3t. I'd prefer something newer and all aluminum for the weight savings, but since the goal is less than $5,000 I figure I'd need to use what's on hand.
Rear suspension would be a 3 link on the 7.5, front would be a home fabricated job. Or, since there are LoCost kits that basically rebody a Miata, use that system for the front.

Second tentative solution: Miata with an LS in it. They fit very nicely, but you won't get anywhere near 40mpg, cause you'd drive with your foot in it all the time. You could do it for less than $5,000 if you can buy the car right.

Third tentative solution: Corvair with a Subie in it.

Fourth tentative solution: In California we get smogged for anything after '74 so I'd find a small compact from before '74. It would have to have some prowess braking and cornering and be as complete as possible. (building a car from a shell is harder than doing the LoCost solution) Drop a modern 4-cylinder turbo charged engine in it. Oh, hey I've got an Alfa on jacks in the chicken coop, maybe I could use that...

Have fun.

[Dan Barlow]

While I appreciate nod to the third gen bird, The tpi 350 with the t 5 in it with 3.23 ish gears never got mire than 26. Their to heavy and wide . Mines a pig , I think it weighs 3800lb. Someone checked every option I think excep,t t- tops.