Old V8 vs New V6

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

Oh I know I'd have to make a bigger tranny tunnel for just about anything but its part of the sacrifice for enough room to actually work with.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6


1961 BUICK SPECIAL , four door, V-8, power glide, floors and frame good, all original, turn key, $2,000, West Greenwich, RI
Well its not a powerglide, its a goofey Dual Path auto, but I like it.

[DanStokes]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

I worked at a Buick dealer when these were current, and drove my Mom's '62 Special convert thru high school (black over black, red interior). Very cool car with a dual path and 198 V6 odd fire. Ran great, if a bit shaky at idle. Needed a timing chain from time to time.

At one time I had 5 215s - some Buick, some Olds. While similar, they were not identical - the Buicks had different heads and pistons from the Olds. Anyhow - the engine bay and trans tunnel in these little guys is pretty tight, and the drive train is so good it doesn't make much sense to carve the car up to make a change. Both Buick and Olds engines came in 2 and 4 barrel versions, with slightly stiffer cams in the 4 barrel versions. I saw one 4 barrel car with dual exhaust, but I have no idea if it was factory. Olds, of course, made an early turbo version w/water injection.

A few of the cars had 4 speeds, but I don't know what the trans was - I assumed it was a Warner, but not sure. The dual path is really OK. I did a rebuild on the one from Mom's car, but maybe did it prematurely - I was young and eager, and the chief mechanic at the dealership was willing to mentor me. It was pretty simple. It's just a planetary gear set and some actuators. It will warn you if it needs a rebuild - it'll start driving forward in neutral. A little of that is normal - too much is the sign you're looking for.

These are great little cars, and the V6 versions are tough as nails. I rode it hard and put it up wet - every night. My 215 in my Vega took a lot of crap, too. I sold the Vega to a friend with an Olds motor (I kept the built Buick engine for a project I never completed), and his wife drove it until the Vega disintegrated - standard in Michigan. The engine still ran great.

My experience and $0.02
Dan

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

The engine is cool, I like EFI though so I'd want to change that, the transmission on the other hand is something I'd really like to change to an OD. I can see your point about hacking it up though.
I wonder if the 2bbl versions compression is low enough to run 87 in? what kind of mileage did you get out of the V6?

[DanStokes]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

I can't find my '65 Motor's Manual, or I'd look the CR's up for you. As I recall, they were not very pre-ignition prone. Tip of the day - run a can of Rislone thru the fuel tank (not a misprint - the Fuel Tank) with each oil filter change. We did oil at 3K and oil & filter at 6K for our customers back then. The one thing they will do is coke up the back of the valves (darn if I can remember if it was the intakes or exhausts) and the Rislone will clean that out. Took a stroll down the path of hard knocks to learn this. The '64 300 engines were the worst for this (iron block, aluminum heads).

Bottom line - I wouldn't expect either engine to be rattle prone. Remember, engine cooling is excellent with the aluminum heads (I'm guessing that's the reason for the valve deposits), so hot spots are not very likely. My built Buick had the heads cut 0.020, but I can't remember the CR (it was a while back). If I was going for max power, I'd crank the timing way up and run pump premium, but for cruising I'd pull timing out and it ran fine on regular - it was a long time ago, but I'm remembering 36 degrees when set on "kill", and 30 for the street. I don't recall if there is actually a difference in the heads from the 2 bbl to 4 bbl versions - the CR is higher with a 4 bbl, but the CR may have been in the pistons.

Hope this helps
Dan

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

yes, the Rover EFI stuff fits though some sources say that you have to clearance the heads for the injectors which are mounted at the extreme end of intake runner.
Article on adding the Rover EPROM MAF system http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Rover-14CUX-EFI.htm
I'd be tempted to run it with a 98/99 vortec EFI system and a dave's small body HEI with a 7pin module retrofit. I don't think anyone makes a tuner for the BMW/Bosch Motronic EFI system that came on the 99-02 units or the 95-99 GEMS systems since they are both on 4.0 and 4.6L unit and I don't want to mess with swapping the whole mess.

[squirrel]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

2bbl and the V6 had 8.8 compression, 4bbl 10.25

I used to have a bellhousing for the normal GM manual trans to fit one of those engines, seems to me a T5 might be the way to go if you want to make it relatively easy to do.

Those cars are just way too ugly for me to be interested in doing one...but since you like them, it looks like a fun project! How much mileage are you trying to get out of it?

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

*hangs head in shame*
I can't drive a stick.....

On the practical note I have seen a T5 swapped in and you do have to take a chunk out of the floor to fit it.

Looks like MS and a Motronic (Thor) intake setup would be really cool.



MS won't do sequential will it?

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

yes, the Rover EFI stuff fits though some sources say that you have to clearance the heads for the injectors which are mounted at the extreme end of intake runner.
Article on adding the Rover EPROM MAF system http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Rover-14CUX-EFI.htm
I'd be tempted to run it with a 98/99 vortec EFI system and a dave's small body HEI with a 7pin module retrofit. I don't think anyone makes a tuner for the BMW/Bosch Motronic EFI system that came on the 99-02 units or the 95-99 GEMS systems since they are both on 4.0 and 4.6L unit and I don't want to mess with swapping the whole mess.

with the plastic poppetts ? vortec or vortech blower ?

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

The EFI system off of a 305 or 350 Vortec truck motor from 98 and 99 are supported by the HPTuners VCM Suite. I'd have Dave put the module on the stock Distributor and then wire the rest up to run the injectors, probably L36 cheapies, and everything to run on the rest of the system. The challenge would be the crank sensor.

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

where are going to put the injectors ? it's all plastic , and odd and you need 55-60 psi to fire them
I am interested , because to me it such a bagger of a system

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

Spidey, you are thinking hardware, I'm talking electronics. ECM, harness, sensors..... no stupid popet valves or centeral injectors, agreed those suck. I redid one on a friends truck and we upgraded it to a new spider which puts the injectors down by the ports and removes the valves.

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

where are going to put the injectors ? it's all plastic , and odd and you need 55-60 psi to fire them
I am interested , because to me it such a bagger of a system

As for Injectors they are standard bosch style injectors so it's a matter of selecting the injector rated for the amount of fuel you want at what pressure you want. (Like 24lb/hr@42psi, etc)

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: Old V8 vs New V6

the 96 up sequential didn't have the infamous spider , they had separate poppetts and nozzles , better than the spider , but if you let them sit the poppetts would stick