Primer on how to be offensive

[38P]

Bangshift may be the Wild West of free speech (except on religion and politics), but do the moderators really not pay attention to offensive content such as the following:

Getting Picked last for the Team in any Sport, must Scar you for life.

you have no Clue what your talking about once again.

You have yet to make a Valid point in any of this crying your doing....
What are you 5 years old?

On the Net people think they are as equal in real life as they are on the net. That why you will never find a lot of them at one of these events, where it will show what fools they are in real life.

Your clueless is all . . . .

Yes, I have a very hard time understanding how you take yourself as such a informed person when your clearly not. It not so much a insult to call you clueless, it’s more of a descriptive term, a noun not a insult.

Every Family of this size has 2 grown men that live in the Basement and claim its everyone elses fault they are there.. .

Owning a car has nothing to do with knowing what to do with one.

I have seen different boards (YB, Speed Talk) with guys just like YOU and just a couple others here who run guys off that just get tired of the struggle to relay on good info for people who really want to do more than make posts about how smart they think they are. When you take more away from a site than you add to it, then you should rethink why your here or rethink the aproach you use.

Your Ego has no bounds man, the difference is your not smart enough to know when you shut up on things you have no clue on and listen to learn from those that due have a clue.

TC this is the dumbest post you have ever made, the guy that wants the goverment to set the price of oil and level the feild for you, now you dont want them to control something? Liberty is about everything, the Devil sooner or later will control something you care about and no one will be left to help you if you dont help them first.

Ben Franklin "We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. "

And the ever Popular

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

The one I like best is

A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.

Half of the Sponcers of the bill seem to be Dems so much for it being the just Crazy Rino's that fill in the rest, it has nothing to do with the Taxed Enough Aready Party

YOU GET DUMMER WITH EACH POST. ..

. . . . even a Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut now and then,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Did you drink your Lunch today?

Your just a sad attn whore. . . . But the Farmville life you have and Farmville car your talking about is no concern to me. Your just a sad case of being not hugged enough as a kid and want people to notice you so you post with no constructive reason why or issue so you make one up.

[38P]

How to avoid the foregoing . . . .

11. Avoid arguments about opinions.

Opinions are how we react to , value, and feel about things. They are not facts (although they may be based in facts or our perceptions about facts)

For example, TC's claim that EFI tuners are indebted to the work in the 1980s of his dead friend seems to be more of an opinion than a verifiable fact. Certainly the development of aftermarket EFI and tuning developed in many places and there are many who deserve credit for advancing the art. Someone tuning in the early '80s (when the prevailing majority still rejected EFI for hot rodding)was clearly a pioneer.

10. Argue from your own experience, not against someone else's.

Unless you've made direct observations of the EXACT same phenomenon/event as your opponent, then arguing against what they claim to have experienced tends to be futile. Instead, offer your own counter-experiences.

For example, much of what DG and Dieselgeek are arguing about is the other's experiences (or lack of same). It is much more persuasive (and peaceful) to use something you've done or seen as support for a position, than it is to attack what someone else claims to have done. If what someone else claims seems imposible, it's better to ask targeted questions that will show error or untruth than it is to just summarily conclude that the other's claim is false.

9. "A man's got to know his limitations."

If your opponent has more knowledge or apparent expertise than you in a particular area, it is foolhearty to challenge without first obtaining solid, objective research for your position. When you start pontificating outside of your knowledge and experience, you undoubtedly will get called on it.

For example, in the thread on Brian's "Buford," I suggested a means of repairing Ford's occassional 2V SOHC spark plug problem. But having owned DOHC modulars exclusively and not being a professional line technician, I hadn't directly experienced the 2V SOHC problem and was writing outside of my own experience. Getting called on it by those with more applicable experience was foreseeable and fair.

8. Avoid ridicule.

Although Saul Alinsky claimed that ridicule is man's most potent weapon, the truth is that ridicule is destructive and dangerous. Ridicule tends to refocus the debate from facts and logic to personalities and defensiveness.

Healthy rivalry is not ridicule. Ridicule is mocking, taunting, and deriding for the purpose of invoking contempt and scorn. If your position is sound, logic and fact should be sufficient to carry the day without ridicule.

(The exception to this, of course, is when discussing GM's "LESS" V8 . . . .)

7. Avoid hasty generalizations.

You may think your anecdotal experiences are predictive of what will happen everywhere and everytime. They probably aren't. Thus, blanket condemnations or effusive praise based on limited personal data is bound to trigger reactions from those who have contrary anecdotal experiences.

6. Attack arguments, not people or personalities.

"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day." In other words, arguments rise and fall on facts and logic, not the identity of who offers them. When people in arguments resort to attacking each other rather than the facts and logic at issue, it is almost certain that the dispute will degenerate into unnecessary rancor.

5. Avoid fighting words.

Calling someone an "idiot" or a "moron" or some other disparaging label is a sure-fire method of stirring up a tempest (and not the Pontiac kind). Such labels do nothing to advance the debate and they are not persuasive.

4. Don't write something behind a screen name that you wouldn't say to someone's face or sign with your real name.

Studies have repeatedly proven that people will write stuff on the internet that they'd never say in person. Thus, a good rule of self-limiting is to think, "would I say that to my next-door neighbor? To my best friend? To my spouse? Would I sign my real name to it? If the answer is "no," then you probably ought not to write it under an assumed name, either.

3. Don't "call out" opponents by criticizing them by name.

Names have power. Using someone's name personalizes a dispute. Criticism by name tends to cause emotional reactions and retaliation-in-kind. Thus, allowing others to "save face" by not criticizing by name -- rather sticking to the logic and facts of a dispute, and describing types of people without unfair stereotyping, instead of expressly naming them -- tends to reduce the focus on personalities and emotions.

2. Be gracious when your wrong . . . when you're right.

No one is correct 100% of the time. When your opponent points out a legitimate flaw in your facts or logic, graciously acknowledge it and MOVE ON. The most wise and persuasive people are the ones who admit their failures and learn from them. The biggest jerks tend to be those who cannot face their mistakes.

The second biggest jerks are those who lord their correctness and superiority over everyone. Instead, gently strive to help others see things the way you do. Encourage them to expand their experiences and guide them through how you've arrived at the conclusion you think is "the answer."

1. Treat others as you would like to be treated

This is an old chestnut of wisdom because it generally works. If you pick fights, don't be surprised when people fight back. If you're gracious, self-depricating and kind, most people will respond favorably.

[dulcich]

A little advice, Speedy; life’s too short. If something about someone's manner is objectionable to you, let it go. You are not going to get very far trying to control someone else, so that energy is better spent controlling yourself.
-dulcich

[38P]

You're right, Dulcich. I've quit this forum two or three times in order to "let go" of the incivility. And then stuff like Shelby dying lures me back in.

And you're also correct in implying that I ought to be more civil myself.

[Scott Liggett]

It's just as easy to ignore someone on the internet as it is to argue with them. The more you argue, the more certain people will continue with you. It takes two to argue on the internet. If you don't respond to them, then they don't get to go on. And, just because you didn't respond doesn't mean they won the argument, or even right.

[dulcich]

You're right, Dulcich. I've quit this forum two or three times in order to "let go" of the incivility. And then stuff like Shelby dying lures me back in.

And you're also correct in implying that I ought to be more civil myself.

If you really think about it, quitting the forum is not getting past a perception of incivility. As far as automotive boards go, I find the group here to be very good and more tolerant than most.
-dulcich

[Barry Donovan]

I hope I am not the only one laughing.

jeffmckc is quite a character...
some of those quotes.

getting offended easily ends up a personal problem.

getting offended by the net is also not real life.

I have encountered some real life oddity..and I know darn well it was net related as the origin...

that is scary isn't it.

[Deaf Bob]

As far as boards go... This one's pretty tame and civil...

Gonna find stuff that you don't like or react to... Why? Pure human nature.. Let it go..
Scott sums it up pretty good for me... No reply on my part doesn't mean I lost the disagreement..

Yeah, I need to follow my own advice sometimes...

Said this before... Don't like something, move on, flip the page..
Read what you find interesting... (lota of stuff here for me, I said earlier today I was on here 1-1 1/2 months, then saw my avatar saying Feb that's 3 months)
Not interested? Gloss over it..

Dulcich's right... Life's too short... You seem to have a pretty good one.. Got to meet Shelby!

On a derby forum I am on, some guys were so mad, one even drove over an hour to have it out with a screen jockey.. I told him later to let it go, they want the reaction... Keep in mind these guys feel to hit HARD is very much idolized.. While driver's door shots tend to start brawls.. The moderators decided to let it play out till like 2am then the whole topic was wiped out... No more he said. No he said.. Since it was not a derby we run at, I didnt care. But was worried for our reputations as it effects us all in MOTORSPORTS.

[squirrel]

I haven't noticed Dan Stokes having it out with anyone here.....

[tardis454]

Looks like someone's singling out Jeff. I'm not justifying his actions, & I take what he says with a grain of salt. Jeff IS opinionated & crass, but that's Jeff, he seems to be a character, & he's probably a nice guy in real life. He IS entitled to his opinion, & this IS a semi-free country, take it or leave it..

This forum is VERY civilized compared to other forums. The music forums I'm on are WAY worse, the levels of smug are so high there you can see the smug clouds from space.

Honestly, I could give a rat's ass what people online say. I can't, don't, & won't get offended, there's no point in any of it. The haters don't know me or what I've been through in life, & they can all piss off.

I'd say if this is too much for you then hang it up, there are worse places to chat, this isn't one of them.

I like this line from 'Shit my Dad says'..

"Nervous? In 5 billion years the sun will burn out and nothing you did will matter. Feel better?"

[skullbucket]

I don't see anything wrong with what he has said, if somebodies a dumn ass then someone should let him know it.
If someone can find a wisecrack, antidote, limerick or saying to describe someone without calling them stupid then so be it and if not then call them stupid.
But if your going to fence sit or back down everytime someone jumps on a high horse because your going to be the "bigger man" then just put on your dress and find a boyfriend to cuddle with until the smoke clears and let the real men hash it out!

[TC]

Bangshift may be the Wild West of free speech (except on religion and politics), but do the moderators really not pay attention to offensive content such as the following:

Speedy they only pay attention when it's me..............Everyone else gets a free ride.......

[38P]

I don't see anything wrong with what he has said

Then maybe you should apply to be one of the moderators. (I guess that's not letting it go)

, if somebodies a dumn . . .

It's spelled "DUMB." DG would be proud at my fealty to correct spelling.

ass then someone should let him know it.

Without violating the forum rules any more than I've pointed out above, a wise person once said " For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." In this instance, Mr. Skullbucket, I'd be very careful in throwing around labels that could be applied to you.

If someone can find a wisecrack, antidote, limerick or saying to describe someone without calling them stupid then so be it and if not then call them stupid.

How does calling anyone stupid help anyone? "A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." "Correct a brother gently ..."

But if your going to fence sit or back down everytime someone jumps on a high horse because your going to be the "bigger man" then just put on your dress and find a boyfriend to cuddle with until the smoke clears and let the real men hash it out!

The temptation, of course, is to NUKE that statement. It is patently wrong from both an aesthetic view and a substantive view. More than two millennia of Western thought has repeatedly rejected the idea that being the "bigger man" or the "real" man in a pointless, ad hominem fight means to keep escalating invective attacks. "The better part of valor is discretion . . . " William Shakespeare, Henry The Fourth, Part 1 Act 5, scene 4 (Falstaff)

However, in the interest of promoting civility, I shall allow Mr. Skullbucket's opinions about "dress wearing" and "cuddling" to be judged by the moral sensibilities of prevailing community standards.

While I observe this thread has generated some thoughtful insights, I do not share the view that Mr. Skullbucket's musings are among them.

[38P]

Speedy they only pay attention when it's me..............Everyone else gets a free ride.......

It would seem that the ad hominem "flame war" between TC and DG gets singled out because it flares up so often. My point is that incivility is more pervasive.

Perhaps BS isn't the biggest sewer on-line. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try harder to treat others with the same respect and kindness that we would like for ourselves.

[andy30thz]

Bangshift may be the Wild West of free speech (except on religion and politics), but do the moderators really not pay attention to offensive content such as the following:

Man Speedy....I can see some of your points, but not this.
We are no longer in school. You are asking the Mods to limit what is posted on this board? That's pretty lame.
I expect a lot more from you. Ignore it and continue, or get out of the kitchen.

Although, I see you left out what Jeff was responding to with some of his comments. I think its hard to believe that your week long rant about an event he cares deeply about wouldn't evoke some kind of negative response.

Then again, Jeff is probably one of those insiders.....